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01-28-2014, 10:58 AM

#147681

Timbo

Runs with scissors

Joined APC: Dec 2009

Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .

Posts: 7,730

Quote:

Originally Posted by scambo1

In this hypothetical, you only have 3 pilots because they are blocking over 8 hours on the return leg. Having breaks for a flight less than 8 hours is not a concern of the FAR or DAL. So, when doing your calculations and examples, all hypotheticals should have a block time over 8 hours.

I think we should get two Relief F/A's in the cockpit, from Singapore, in high heals and short skirts, for that 7:45 leg down to SIN late at night!

Watch how senior that trip would go then!

01-28-2014, 10:58 AM

#147682

scambo1

The Brown Dot +1

Joined APC: Jun 2009

Position: 777B

Posts: 7,775

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sink r8

Good question, Timbo. I was thinking about shorter than expected legs, based on tailwinds, like EWR-AMS in the winter. For argument's sake, let's say your rotation shows 8:01.

Which brings up a good question: is the FDP calculated on the rotation, or the expected block in for a particular day.

You have scheduled FDP on the rotation for extension purposes, but certainly rest is based off scheduled block time.

01-28-2014, 10:59 AM

#147683

scambo1

The Brown Dot +1

Joined APC: Jun 2009

Position: 777B

Posts: 7,775

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbo

I think we should get two Relief F/A's in the cockpit, from Singapore, in high heals and short skirts, for that 7:45 leg down to SIN late at night!

Watch how senior that trip would go then!

You don't have them already?

01-28-2014, 11:02 AM

#147684

Sink r8

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jun 2009

Posts: 5,113

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoop

So one of your concerns is the flight is too short to each have a 2:00 break? Damm, I need to bid INTL FO ASAP!

No, the problem is that we always divided the breaks, and had a very good system, which 117 is micromanaging. The FP minimum break is a new requirement. When a flight gets to be short enough, you can't respect that, and the old way of doing things, without screwing someone somewhere, and/or compromising safety.

T brings up a valid problem, and I only see one slightly unpopular solution, and some really unpopular other solutions, to comply with the constraints.

01-28-2014, 11:02 AM

#147685

Timbo

Runs with scissors

Joined APC: Dec 2009

Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .

Posts: 7,730

Quote:

Originally Posted by scambo1

You don't have them already?

Not dedicated to the cockpit.

There was one with a really neat compass tatoo'd on her butt cheek that was nice enough to show it to us though.

That kept us awake for awhile!

Wish I could find her again!

01-28-2014, 11:03 AM

#147686

scambo1

The Brown Dot +1

Joined APC: Jun 2009

Position: 777B

Posts: 7,775

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sink r8

Same answer as for Timbo, to a good point by Scambo. Let's say your rotation shows 8:01, but your block time on the release shows 7:10.

So I'm counter-hypotheticalling you.

Well Timbo brings the real counter-hypothetical up. NRT-SIN blocked at 745 two pilot op and no breaks. After all it is about safety...

How do you do a stall recovery with a cute new hire SIN FA in your lap facing you? Oh yeah now I get where FR 117 came from. Safety...Riiigghhht.

01-28-2014, 11:03 AM

#147687

80ktsClamp

Da Hudge

Joined APC: Oct 2006

Position: Poodle Whisperer

Posts: 17,473

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbo

Why would you have 3 pilots on a flight less than 8 hours? Or is this part of the new 117?

Going east to near yurop in the winter tends to be under 8. Coming back is over 8...therefore 3 pilots.

01-28-2014, 11:06 AM

#147688

Timbo

Runs with scissors

Joined APC: Dec 2009

Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .

Posts: 7,730

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

Going east to near yurop in the winter tends to be under 8. Coming back is over 8...therefore 3 pilots.

Yeahbut...on the way over, if it's scheduled under 8, you don't need a relief pilot, so why the discussion on how long his break is going to be? If I were him, I'd be in F/C sipping something strong, watching a movie. Why doesn't the company just schedule him as a DH on that leg?

01-28-2014, 11:07 AM

#147689

Sink r8

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jun 2009

Posts: 5,113

Quote:

Originally Posted by scambo1

You have scheduled FDP on the rotation for extension purposes, but certainly rest is based off scheduled block time.

I'm a little slow today... You mean the planned blocked time, based on today's release?

01-28-2014, 11:08 AM

#147690

scambo1

The Brown Dot +1

Joined APC: Jun 2009

Position: 777B

Posts: 7,775

it seems to me that over 8, the math still works. What has changed is which break the FP is supposed to get. Under 8, the math doesn't work and was never intended to work, so the RP gets boned.

I don't see a problem with either of the above.