LivingTheDream

momentary hick-up... working now.

DAL 88 Driver

I think the other guys covered it pretty well. I guess I'm dense because I can't figure out how this is not obvious to everyone. If you only have 8 hours to spend in a hotel room, you do not have the opportunity to sleep for 8 hours. In other words, you cannot walk into a hotel room, fall asleep in your uniform the moment you cross the door threshold into the room, and then wake up 8 hours later (still in your uniform) and immediately walk out the door. That's the only way you could have an opportunity for 8 hours of sleep with 8 hours behind the door. Not physically possible.

The opportunity to get 8 hours of sleep is now required by FAR. Our contractual "8 hours behind the door" would be a violation of FAR 117 and has been effectively rendered obsolete.

Timbo

You say it like it's a bad thing....

I hope they aren't having a do-over, on the awards I saw at 14:30, I got what I wanted!

flyallnite

Another 787 battery incident... this time the main battery...


Boeing confirms new 787 battery problem in Tokyo - 1/14/2014 - Flight Global

RockyBoy

I agree with you on this 100%.

I flew a 4 leg 8:47 block day the other day. Probably the most tired I have ever been at Delta. Still trying to figure out how the hell this 117 stuff helps mitigate fatigue.

Alan Shore

I do not believe that a Captain should ever accept a flight plan that he believes is unrealistic. Do the FARs not require mutual concurrence between PIC and dispatch on a flight plan?

Bucking Bar

The Delta Pilots Association filed suit against defendants, believed to be fellow Delta pilots.

As some may recall, the DPA published that their web site had been "hacked" and redirected, then the guilty ones apologetically called offering compensation, but the DPA would not accept. "Members" of the DPA state in addition to the remedies sought in the litigation that they want these people fired from Delta.

A DPA Officer stated on an alternative web board that the incident had no effect on his organization's efforts that they had managed the situation and moved right along.

Courthouse News Service

Pilots Say Union Website Was Hijacked
By IULIA FILIP
ShareThis
MANHATTAN (CN) - Delta Pilots Association claims in court that a hacker hijacked its website and redirected viewers to a rival union's web page, to stop it from getting more members.
Delta Pilots Association sued John Doe in Federal Court, in a three-count complaint under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.
Tim Caplinger, a Delta pilot who lives in Florida, founded the Delta Pilots Association in May 2010 to better represent pilots working for Delta, according to the lawsuit.
Delta Air Lines operates more than 5,000 flights a day and employs nearly 12,000 commercial pilots.
Delta pilots had been represented by the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), a union with 50,000 pilot-members in the United States and Canada.
From 2010 to 2013, the Delta Pilots Association got more than half of the Delta pilots to apply for membership in the new union, according to the lawsuit.
Delta Pilots Association says it uses its website for most of its business, including raising donations and campaigning to get more members.
The website, hosted by nonparty SquareSpace in New York, has publicly accessible pages and private pages that require members to log in.
"Starting on or about Nov. 8, 2013, and continuing thereafter, the integrity of DPA's website was dramatically and visibly disrupted when it was 'hacked' into," the complaint states.
"As a direct and immediate consequence of this attack, DPA's website ceased to function as intended and web pages containing data and information in the public portion of the web site were made inaccessible.
"Further, the ability of DPA's website to accept monetary donations from members and/or supporters ceased to function properly when links to a secure third-party credit card web site were severed."
The union says its website could no longer display video messages and important updates, and that visitors were redirected to other website the union does not own.
"In the early stages of the attack, viewers attempting to access DPA's website were involuntarily redirected to a web page that falsely claimed DPA had abandoned its card collection campaign and now urged support for ALPA ('work together')," the complaint states. "This page also contained a link to an ALPA web site.
"In the later stages of the attack viewers were redirected to yet another website, 'deltapilot.org,' which mimicked DPA's website, effectively a malicious 'clone' of it.
"Upon information and belief, the initial web page and the clone site were calculated or intended to dissuade any further Delta pilots from signing cards in DPA's campaign or to otherwise abandon DPA, or its campaign, by knowingly and intentionally making false statements of material fact about DPA and its campaign." (Parentheses in complaint).
The Air Line Pilots Association is not a party to the lawsuit.
Delta Pilots Association claims the hacker destroyed data, files and programs and planted malware that may attack its website again.
"To date, plaintiff has not been successful in removing all of the malicious commands or code and consequently DPA's website remains potentially vulnerable to renewed 'backdoor' attacks by defendant Doe presently and in the future," the lawsuit states.
Delta Pilots Association claims that after it announced it would sue, the hacker called its Interim President, Tim Caplinger, on Nov. 15 and tried to negotiate his way out of the lawsuit.
It claims it lost donations and spent thousands of dollars to determine the damage and restore its website.
The union seeks an injunction and compensatory damages for violations of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.
It is represented by Stanley Silverstone with Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen, of White Plains.

sailingfun

DALPA's information comes from the FAA's interpretation of their rule. I don't think anyone is going to get violated. One key point of the rule is if you do not feel you have the rest you require then don't fly the leg.

Purple Drank

Where is DALPA on this??

DAL 88 Driver

Wrong. The FAA's interpretation of their rule basically just restates the rule. And really, it doesn't even matter what kind of "interpretation" they come out with... the FAR is written very clearly and not open to any interpretation. Until they rewrite the FAR, I'll be complying with it thank you very much.

I posted that "interpretation" earlier, but here it is again. I'll emphasize in red the parts that make it indisputable:

Sleep Opportunity

1. Definition of Sleep Opportunity: APA asked the FAA to define ‘‘uninterrupted sleep opportunity.’’ APA also asked whether the sleep opportunity has to take place at a specific location, such as the flightcrew member’s home. Subsection 117.25(e) requires a certificate holder to provide a flightcrew member with 10 hours of rest that includes an 8-hour uninterrupted sleep opportunity immediately before the flightcrew member begins a reserve or FDP. Subsection 117.25(f) requires the flightcrew member to notify the certificate holder if he or she determines that his/her rest period will not provide an 8-hour uninterrupted sleep opportunity.

A sleep opportunity generally commences once a flightcrew member is at a location where the flightcrew member can reasonably be expected to go to sleep and not have that sleep interrupted. The sleep opportunity does not need to take place at the flightcrew member’s home, but it must take place at a location where the flightcrew member can reasonably expect to obtain 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep. In addition, as the FAA pointed out in the preamble to final rule, specific sleep situations ‘‘are difficult to capture in a regulatory standard.’’ That is why 117.25(f) requires the flightcrew member to notify the certificate holder if the flightcrew member determines that he or she cannot get the requisite amount of uninterrupted sleep.