Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Sink and ACL65,

We agree. Just a couple of angles to add perspective:

The United States has Department of Homeland Security has rules in place which make connecting through the United States unfeasible. To walk from gate E15 to E14 requires at "Transit Visa" which costs money and can be anywhere from "hard to get" to "impossible." The result is that many Asians avoid buying tickets on NWA/Delta. It might not make sense to buy an Air Canada ticket to go from Manila to Cabo San Lucas, but Air Canada can get an additional $1,000 per economy ticket because for most passengers between countries, transiting the United States is simply not permitted.

Asia has massive population centers and I've never met an Asian who does not want to get out and see the World the second they can afford to do so. The way to tap the discretionary travel market there is to go cheap, and again on a scale we can scarcely imagine. The only limit will be crash worthiness and Certification issues.

Having a hub outside of the Department of Homeland Security's domain is an important strategic asset for Delta. The rub is, management can satisfy both of these needs without "Delta" as we know it. In fact, if I were in their shoes I'd go about it exactly as they are.

It is much tougher to insert yourself into an illogical labor situation as a union. If we had a track record of insisting on inclusive mergers when we do one of these "virtual mergers" that would be one thing. Instead our history is to scope it and limit it. In this case, I don't see how that really works to our long term benefit.

This Cranky Flier guy is pretty smart with his labor analysis. We might shore up our point to point from the US, but with this as a Joint Venture there really is no reason for Delta pilots to actually perform the flying obtained under our 5th freedom rights.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

It does not mean that it will go that way, but in the end it frees up our assets to go elsewhere.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

I agree that no matter what the deal is, it would make more sense from a corporate perspective to have JAL do the hub flying out of Japan. It does not mean that it will go that way, but in the end it frees up our assets to go elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Sink r8

Keep in mind I was talking about serving obscure cities, i.e. small markets. The cities we serve in Asia via Tokyo probably could use a direct flight, if we had long-range aircraft that were small enough (eventually, Boeing might deliver the 787...). Only in the case of a trip from a secondary market to a secondary market does it make sense to see two connections. In the case, of say, Grand Rapids to Bangkok, you would expect a stop in DTW, then a single long flight to Thailand. As it stands now, we manage to turn even this trip into a three-leg event.

IOW, I am saying that the evolution of air travel everywhere has been towards direct, or single-stop, and our hub at NRT doesn't accomplish that. Right now (luckily for us), the same can be said of the competition. Before too long, however, someone is going to have an alliance that can share resources and offer more and more direct flights from us hubs to medium-sized markets on the opposite side of the Pacific. That alliance wins, IMHO.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Yeah, every time they say that we end up with deadhead legs back from Southern California, or Phoenix.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

ACL65,

Also consider most of South Asia is Muslim. Muslim's hate freedom, perspective and education. As a prominent American brand providing the freedom to travel, learn and see the World, we will be a target. There are some parts of the World that scare me and Bin Ladin's brothers (literally) in South Asia are a frightening prospect for a commercial operator.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

A very wise take, but as DAL has pointed out they can get the profit on AF/KLM without operating the flight. It is also not feasible for DAL to operate a flight from NRT to UFV, SJO, et al. There are just some efficiencies we will not be able to get.

In reality that is why I see this being done in concert with AF. We will connect East and they will connect West out of Tokyo!

Originally Posted by NuGuy

Heyas,

Dangerous ground, and I diagree strongly with your "let's let others do the flying and we'll redeploy our assets to better markets" post.

This is exactly the same thought process that gave us hordes of RJs that are currently causing so much angst.

Heck, we can't do any flying worthwhile out of DFW or CVG, so let's just let Republic do it and we'll use the airplanes somewhere else...ooops, there is no where else, so we're gonna park 'em and here's another displacement furlough.

Not one more plane, not one more seat, not one more pound...that goes for 777s and 747s as well as DC9s and 737s.

Fortunatly RA knows the value of Japanese passengers better than the cranky whoever.

Nu