newKnow

Super and Sailing.

Just to expand on what Super finished up with. I also see a HUGE amount of NWA pilots getting out early now PERP or no PERP. That increased health care cost is going to push a lot of people out. Probably more than expected.

sailingfun

THe growth in Cargo they speak about refers to underwing cargo on passenger aircraft. Ed Bastion was asked specifically about the NW Cargo operation and fleet the last week of June. His reply was posted on the Delta net in writing. He stated the operation was losing a lot of money and they were looking at options but could not sustain it with the current loses. The 747-400 will be around for the next few years. They do want to move the aircraft to Atlanta flights however that is more about fleet optimization then a love for the aircraft. They want to move 767's to DTW and MSP and 330's to JFK for the same reasons. Its expected that once they have enough 777's on the property for expansion they will start phasing out 747's and replacing them with 777's. I heard a question asked about the 747-800 as a 400 replacement and the answer was "not interested, does not make sense for Delta.

Superpilot92

Its also been stated over and over that the 747-400s will likely be converted to frieghters to replace the 200s in the future. Bottom line is there are theorys and information coming from all angles and only time will tell what WILL happen for sure. We'll see what happens.

dtfl

Ref: cargo - from RAs comments at the NYC LCA meeting...

- cargo revenue to grow 20-25% - we hired several cargo gurus away from United.

Justdoinmyjob

Super,
While I do like your enthusiasm, the only people I have ever heard talking about converting the 747-400s to freighters are NW people. Keep in mind that whatever NW management has told you about fleet makeup most likely won't survive the DCC. Not trying to be a buzzkill, but you might want to listen to senior DL people when it comes to decoding the "message" emanating from Mahogany Row. They have been doing it for a long time now. Just like I would defer to Carl concerning NW "messages" and the best way to kill golfers.

Superpilot92

I personally think they will be used in PAX service for a while with the new DAL and might possibly be converted to freighters later. While the NWA fleet managers are the ones who mentioned a possible conversion to freight in the past the new bosses, read Delta, have said on a number of occasions they will be serving pax out of ATL. I was just debating the freighter aspect with Sailing because i think they will be used in one way or the other. We'll see, you guys over at DAL seem to have some really good and smart route gurus, lets hope they keep it up.

sailingfun

Actually we stole the route guru's from CAL. They do however seem to be smart. The one interesting thing is that the 747's planned to come to Atlanta it now appears will be flying South America. Everyone thought the would be going to Africa. The long rumored non stop route to South Africa looks like it will be flown with a 777 LR next year. Two new routes just mentioned on Delta net are LA-Sidney and Vietnam. No mention which aircraft would fly those but would have to be a 777 or 747-400. Could be spring 08 routes.
I have heard the 400's mentioned for cargo conversion and posted that here. Carl said they were to heavy with the upper decks however there is a mod line for the conversion and aircraft are being converted as we speak. The problem is that if the operation is losing money they will not keep it period. They have dropped a lot of hints it is not staying. When they start hinting annoucements usually follow. They are planning to grow the overall cargo operation but its belly cargo on passengers flights they are referring to.
One note on a nice change. They came up with a program to make sure revenue cargo gets on the aircraft before non revenue passengers. This lead to jumpseat riders as well as non revs getting bumped. It has just been changed and jumpseat riders will not be bumped for revenue cargo.

upndsky

Sailingfun,

We stole Hauenstein and Cortelyou away from CAL, but I think the cargo guy did come from United.

Sydney and Vietnam have been mentioned as possible destinations, but I wouldn't call them new routes yet. If Sydney comes online, it would be late 09 or early 10. This is directly from Hauenstein during his online chat from a couple of weeks ago. About Vietnam, all he said is, "Vietnam is hot! We're looking at it."

SuperPilot92,

I have seen nothing official (at least from the Delta side) that said we're looking at converting 747-400s to freighters. I know guys have mentioned it here on the boards, but that's it. Unless you have an official source, I would say it is merely speculation, just like us converting the 767s to freighters.

Not to say any of these things aren't going to happen, but a lot of rumor is starting to be spread like facts. I can only go by what the company is willing to say publicly or semi-privately (ie. inter-company communications).

Ciao.

Superpilot92

Just to answer your question my source was the Fleet Manager here at NWA. Now that we are merging then who knows and it will be up to DAL but from the NWA side it wasnt a rumor. They were actively looking into the conversion and said that as soon as the 787s came online thats when those changes could occur.

We'll see what happens

sailingfun

Superpilot, What you heard is what I also heard about the NWA fleet plan. That is why I said not all the 787's were growth aircraft. The fleet plan had almost all the 787's as replacements for 747-400's converting to cargo while the -200's were retired.