Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-19-2013, 12:59 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: SLC ERB
Posts: 467
Yes, but the 137 hours of work equates to 5.7 days (5 days, 17 hour)s. I guess we don't see what you're getting at. Yes, you can work 7 actual days with the new regs, if you start late on day 1 and end early on day 7 but you're not working 7 whole days continuously. You're only working 5 days, 16 hours without getting a 30 hours break.
That's one of the things about the FAR 117 - it's parts of it are the same, just labeled and defined differently.
Instead of 1 day off in 7, now we get 30 hours off in 168 hours of duty. (which is 1 day, 6 hours off every 7 days).
That's one of the things about the FAR 117 - it's parts of it are the same, just labeled and defined differently.
Instead of 1 day off in 7, now we get 30 hours off in 168 hours of duty. (which is 1 day, 6 hours off every 7 days).
12-19-2013, 01:02 PM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
The original question was, can you work a 4 day trip followed by a 3 day trip and not have a 30 hour break somewhere in the middle? The answer is yes, it is possible. You can work 7 flight duty periods in 7 days without a 30 hour break. Sure, it would require a late report on day 1 and an early release on day 7 (and it would need to be under 60 total flight duty period hours), but it's is possible. Under the old rules it would not be legal due to the 24 off in 7 calendar days requirement. That's all I was trying say.
12-19-2013, 01:19 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Most of the examples given could have also been flown under the old FAR's. If the trips were international you could fly an unlimited amount of days. Domestically you could probably fly what he posted legally. Trips with 30 hour layovers tend to have a lot of credit so you could easily be under 30. Toss in trips with dh legs and I suspect you would see it possible more often under the old FAR then the new one.
12-19-2013, 01:40 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Position: On the hotel shuttle
Posts: 5,850
From the ALPA Guide: "Before beginning any reserve or FDP assignment, the flightcrew member must have received a 30
consecutive-hour rest within the past 168 consecutive
hours that precedes the beginning of the FDP."
The key: this is a look back rule. By the end of that last FDP you may be able to look back 168hrs and not see 30 consecutive hours rest -- and still be legal.
consecutive-hour rest within the past 168 consecutive
hours that precedes the beginning of the FDP."
The key: this is a look back rule. By the end of that last FDP you may be able to look back 168hrs and not see 30 consecutive hours rest -- and still be legal.
12-19-2013, 01:46 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: SLC ERB
Posts: 467
Hypothetical 7 day trip:
Day 1: report 1900, 5 hour FDP, 14 hour layover
Day 2: 10 hour FDP, 14 hour layover
Day 3: 10 hour FDP, 14 hour layover
Day 4: 10 hour FDP, 14 hour layover
Day 5: 10 hour FDP, 11 hour layover
Day 6: 10 hour FDP, 11 hour layover
Day 7: 5 hour FDP. Block in at 1300
138 hours from report to block in. 60 total FDP hours. No 30 hour breaks, no 24 hour breaks.
At 1300 on day 7 you still had 30 hours off in the previous 168.
Legal under 117. Not legal under current FAR's
Yes, it's pushed right at the limit. No, we would probably never actually see a trip like this (never say never?). But a hypothetical trip like this is a good way to get a feel for what is possible under the new rules.
12-19-2013, 02:03 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Permanently scarred
Posts: 1,707
The original question was, can you work a 4 day trip followed by a 3 day trip and not have a 30 hour break somewhere in the middle? The answer is yes, it is possible. You can work 7 flight duty periods in 7 days without a 30 hour break. Sure, it would require a late report on day 1 and an early release on day 7 (and it would need to be under 60 total flight duty period hours), but it's is possible. Under the old rules it would not be legal due to the 24 off in 7 calendar days requirement. That's all I was trying say.
12-19-2013, 02:32 PM
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,946
Well sure, old rules, new rules - as long as they kept giving you the necessary breaks, you could be at work indefinitely, I guess.
Hypothetical 7 day trip:
Day 1: report 1900, 5 hour FDP, 14 hour layover
Day 2: 10 hour FDP, 14 hour layover
Day 3: 10 hour FDP, 14 hour layover
Day 4: 10 hour FDP, 14 hour layover
Day 5: 10 hour FDP, 11 hour layover
Day 6: 10 hour FDP, 11 hour layover
Day 7: 5 hour FDP. Block in at 1300
138 hours from report to block in. 60 total FDP hours. No 30 hour breaks, no 24 hour breaks.
At 1300 on day 7 you still had 30 hours off in the previous 168.
Legal under 117. Not legal under current FAR's
Yes, it's pushed right at the limit. No, we would probably never actually see a trip like this (never say never?). But a hypothetical trip like this is a good way to get a feel for what is possible under the new rules.
Hypothetical 7 day trip:
Day 1: report 1900, 5 hour FDP, 14 hour layover
Day 2: 10 hour FDP, 14 hour layover
Day 3: 10 hour FDP, 14 hour layover
Day 4: 10 hour FDP, 14 hour layover
Day 5: 10 hour FDP, 11 hour layover
Day 6: 10 hour FDP, 11 hour layover
Day 7: 5 hour FDP. Block in at 1300
138 hours from report to block in. 60 total FDP hours. No 30 hour breaks, no 24 hour breaks.
At 1300 on day 7 you still had 30 hours off in the previous 168.
Legal under 117. Not legal under current FAR's
Yes, it's pushed right at the limit. No, we would probably never actually see a trip like this (never say never?). But a hypothetical trip like this is a good way to get a feel for what is possible under the new rules.
Now I see what you were getting at. Due to the 168 hour rolling window the "30 hour break" precedes working 7 calendar days in a row with no intervening break.
I agree, not a pretty picture, and hard to believe that this is under the new "scientifically based" rules.
Just another example of "the Man keeping us down."
Scoop
12-19-2013, 02:38 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Position: JFK A-330 A
Posts: 277
I just downloaded the ALPA 117 app, just in case. (Never know when a crew-mate may need some help.) Took all of two minutes.
iPhone-->App Store..search ALPA--> scroll over and install.
"So easy, even a Captain can do it!"
iPhone-->App Store..search ALPA--> scroll over and install.
"So easy, even a Captain can do it!"
12-19-2013, 02:39 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Position: JFK A-330 A
Posts: 277
I just downloaded the ALPA 117 app, just in case. (Never know when a crew-mate may need some help.) Took all of two minutes.
iPhone-->App Store..search ALPA--> scroll over and install.
"So easy, even a Captain can do it!"
iPhone-->App Store..search ALPA--> scroll over and install.
"So easy, even a Captain can do it!"
Last edited by DFW Refugee; 12-19-2013 at 02:43 PM. Reason: Double post.
12-19-2013, 03:36 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
So easy a Captain can do it... twice 
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