Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-19-2013, 08:23 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
I like where your head's at
but 100% of whatever we gain from this needs to go towards reserve work rules and QOL and if there's anything left over, scope recapture though I think we all know that's not on anyone's radar at the moment.
but 100% of whatever we gain from this needs to go towards reserve work rules and QOL and if there's anything left over, scope recapture though I think we all know that's not on anyone's radar at the moment.
12-19-2013, 08:49 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 7,000
No you can not. Per FAR 117 you need:
30 Consecutive hours free from all duty within the 168 consecutive
hour period prior to beginning an FDP or starting short call.
168 is basically a 7 day week. The 30 hour period can be at the front end of a trip but I don't see how this is possible with a 4 day trip followed by a 3 day trip. That situation would be possible only with two 3 day trips.
Unless there is something unusual going on with deadheads or possible a warp in the space time continuum, you need a 30 hour break in there somewhere.
See the bulletin the company e-mailed out today.
I would definitely take a good long look at it before flying it as you have described.
Scoop
12-19-2013, 09:02 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: SLC ERB
Posts: 467
I didn't realize that WSC was a legally binding document - I thought that it just served to help explain the scheduling provisions of our contract. From what I can find, the 9 hour leash is NOT codified in the PWA, it's IMPLIED as a MINIMUM leash thanks to the 3 hour prior acknowledgment requirement. As an example - let's say I'm on long call, and I noticed that I missed a call from scheduling so I use my iCrewMax app to unofficially check my schedule. And let's say that I notice, unofficially, that they have assigned a trip that reports 24 hours from now. I now have 21 hours before I have to officially acknowledge the assignment, not 9. Correct?
12-19-2013, 09:27 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Posts: 1,898
We should be pushing for higher trip rigs. If they want us to cool our heels in a hotel because of 117, fine. Pay me. 14 days off should equate to 85 hours a month, not 72. I think with the leverage we have now, we should apply pressure to increase the pay per duty period, not **** it away on some commuter friendly reserve scheme.
12-19-2013, 09:37 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 777 Sim Instructor
Posts: 745
But think about how much more Rested you'll feel!
Y.G.T.B.S.M!
Somehow 117 has us laying over in NRT for 48 hours, after/before short 4 pilot, 12hr. legs, yet we can still fly LAX-Sydney or ATL-Dubai, 15 hour legs, with only 24 hr. layovers??
W. T. F??
It seems like there was no common sense applied to this thing at all!
All the 777 guys I've spoken with about the 48hr.s in NRT are in agreement, it's just going to fk us up more, body clock wise! We'll get acclimated to Tokyo time, just in time to leave and fly an all-nighter to Singapore, and then do it again, back to MSP.
All because some nitwit who shouldn't have been allowed in a cockpit, couldn't fly a stall recovery! Un-Be-Fkng-Lieveable.
Y.G.T.B.S.M!
Somehow 117 has us laying over in NRT for 48 hours, after/before short 4 pilot, 12hr. legs, yet we can still fly LAX-Sydney or ATL-Dubai, 15 hour legs, with only 24 hr. layovers??
W. T. F??
It seems like there was no common sense applied to this thing at all!
All the 777 guys I've spoken with about the 48hr.s in NRT are in agreement, it's just going to fk us up more, body clock wise! We'll get acclimated to Tokyo time, just in time to leave and fly an all-nighter to Singapore, and then do it again, back to MSP.
All because some nitwit who shouldn't have been allowed in a cockpit, couldn't fly a stall recovery! Un-Be-Fkng-Lieveable.
12-19-2013, 09:41 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: SLC ERB
Posts: 467
Don't see where anyone has addressed this yet, but are we 'allowed' to fly 7 days in a row now or greater than 30 in 7? My January schedule has a 4 day on the 1st, and a 3 day on the 5th, no double overnights giving 24 hours off in 7 days. Also, it puts me flying 36:17 in 7 days.
Not well versed in the 117 changes, but didn't think it allowed something like this. Looks like quite a few others have the same thing on their line.
Not well versed in the 117 changes, but didn't think it allowed something like this. Looks like quite a few others have the same thing on their line.
I fly the last 4 days of Dec and the first 4 days of Jan - back to back 4 day trips. Over 41 hours of block during that stretch. But hey, I have about 31 hours off between trips so I'm sure I won't be fatigued at all
To answer your question - yes, there is no longer a weekly block limit. You can fly well above 30 hours in a 7 day period. Heck, you can fly 54 hours in 6 days if you like (6 days x 9 hours block per day - but you would have to fit all that flying into 60 hours of total duty, or less. So not really feasible, but you get the point). For your example - How many total hours is it from report on day 1 to release on day 7? If it's under 138 you're good to go. You need to have 30 hours off in a rolling 168 hour period.
Last edited by Dash8widget; 12-19-2013 at 09:54 AM.
12-19-2013, 09:45 AM
seeing the large hubs...
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 73N A
Posts: 3,759
This FAR 117 is completely different than the Flight and Duty stuff we've been used to for well, forever. Although boring, I think we should all actually read what ALPA and the company puts out. It's unlikely the guy sitting next to you on next few trips is going to know any more than you or I do.
While the company probably isn't going to knowingly violate you, with new types of limits and different wording for similar limits, we all gotta be careful. Especially with rerouter, WS or GS. And that's not even going into the reserves...
At least one poster here has a schedule that seems to give him a violation unless something changes or there's something we don't know about his trips (the guy with a 4 day and a 3 day).
So, I know what I'm going to be reading... <sigh>
While the company probably isn't going to knowingly violate you, with new types of limits and different wording for similar limits, we all gotta be careful. Especially with rerouter, WS or GS. And that's not even going into the reserves...
At least one poster here has a schedule that seems to give him a violation unless something changes or there's something we don't know about his trips (the guy with a 4 day and a 3 day).
So, I know what I'm going to be reading... <sigh>
12-19-2013, 09:51 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Posts: 1,898
This FAR 117 is completely different than the Flight and Duty stuff we've been used to for well, forever. Although boring, I think we should all actually read what ALPA and the company puts out. It's unlikely the guy sitting next to you on next few trips is going to know any more than you or I do.
While the company probably isn't going to knowingly violate you, with new types of limits and different wording for similar limits, we all gotta be careful. Especially with rerouter, WS or GS. And that's not even going into the reserves...
At least one poster here has a schedule that seems to give him a violation unless something changes or there's something we don't know about his trips (the guy with a 4 day and a 3 day).
So, I know what I'm going to be reading... <sigh>
While the company probably isn't going to knowingly violate you, with new types of limits and different wording for similar limits, we all gotta be careful. Especially with rerouter, WS or GS. And that's not even going into the reserves...
At least one poster here has a schedule that seems to give him a violation unless something changes or there's something we don't know about his trips (the guy with a 4 day and a 3 day).
So, I know what I'm going to be reading... <sigh>
12-19-2013, 10:02 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,738
You have to have 30 hours off free from all duty within 168 consecutive hours prior to a FDP.
Assuming that your 30 hours rest was at the front end of a 168 hour period, you have 138 hours of "available" space for a FDP or short call before you have to be released into 30 hours of rest again.
That's about 5 3/4 days of duty in a 7 day rolling period.
Nu
Assuming that your 30 hours rest was at the front end of a 168 hour period, you have 138 hours of "available" space for a FDP or short call before you have to be released into 30 hours of rest again.
That's about 5 3/4 days of duty in a 7 day rolling period.
Nu
OUCH!
12-19-2013, 10:07 AM
meh
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 828
I'll put it in there and see what happens but I think I ran into this same thing a few years ago and it got denied, reason being they don't know what reserve coverage they'll have in the first week of Feb. until after they run the Feb bids.
Or was there a change to allow it, in that last SOT LOA?
Or was there a change to allow it, in that last SOT LOA?
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