Roadkill

Concur. Some guys are focusing on the hotel change to 15 hours for long layo, which as you say I actually think is a good thing--tired of losing 3 hours in the round trip to downtown.

However, my only real question/point with this was the fact we have to take a train now to a hotel pickup point... and it's NOT an inside airport train, it's a totally external thing. And every other hotel in the entire United States picks us up at the terminal door.

Purple Drank

I highly recommend Pro-Diem. Great product and customer service.

Expert Per Diem Calculation Service Pilots Flight Attendants

CassinAK

Most of the additional flights to SLC are AS 737's and Compass is coming in to do the competing.... Skywest can have fun out in Minneapolis!

Boomer

You have to remember that transportation, local in nature, is considered restful.

DAL 88 Driver

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting sticking anybody at the airport for a long layover. What I am suggesting is that, in many cases, there is a suburban area with excellent eating options, workout options, etc. that would be far preferable to being downtown. In some of those cases, it's a plus that the location would be closer to the airport. But I'm not suggesting that our long layover should be at an airport hotel, unless that hotel happens to also be in a great area.

I still don't understand the obsession at Delta with downtown. For many of our layovers, there are more suitable areas. It just seems to me like a "we've always done it this way" kind of thing without really thinking about the fact that things have changed over the years. Maybe we could get hotel transportation arranged via horse and buggy too.

Roadkill

Concur. Pro Diem is better than the flightline/sabre thing. I've used both, Pro Diem is fast and better.

Roadkill

I think if we removed the downtown requirement, we would end up getting totally boofed. We don't want to stay at the airport hotel on long layos, we want a "good location" if we're there for a long time. Now, how do you write in that requirement to the contract, considering all the different locations, city climates, and changing locales with time? If we get too specific, then in 2 years we'll want a different place, and when we try to change it then all the usual suspects as well as Delta will say, "What are you willing to give up for that new layover location?"

Therefore, using the term "downtown location" is PROBABLY the best compromise you can come up with, if you're going to have one phrase in place that tries to give us good locations without being overly specific resulting in screwage. I've thought about how I'd rewrite it, a lot, and IMO this is actually a pretty well written part of the contract--I'm VERY GLAD we have that downtown location clause in place.

Now, we DO have the ability to work out changes via the hotel committee chairman working with Delta, such as the 15 hour long layo in NYC. If you look at the DALPA hotel page, you'll see there are actually about 20 locations or more where the hotel chair has worked out long layo times different than 12 hrs--usually to our benefit, such as the NYC example. I think he might be able to work other location issues too, but.... why would he, and how would he please everyone? Example:

DTW long layo is now in the center of the hood, right on the river. I thought it would suxxor, didn't want it... but now I've been there, and yes the location is kinda dangerous at night, but-- I like the hotel, it's kinda it's own mall with food and movies right there. NOW I think it's a good place! So, with DTW as probably the most heinous example folks would say "No downtown!!", I guarantee if they changed it there would be a zillion pilots, ok 5 or so, who would complain. Some guys want to visit the big city, and NOT some cookie-cutter suburb. I'd hate to have someone start messing with my downtown SFO, PHL, SAN, LAS, SEA, LAX, PHX, etc. locations. So yeah, in this case I think the contract and ALPA's work in hotel area, is pretty good.

Now, I'll admit... a DTW layo in Ann Arbor near UM would be closer than downtown and better. And since Wayne County airport ISN'T actually in DTW, in fact it's in Romulus and closer to Ann Arbor, I think we could easily say "downtown = Ann Arbor for DTW, go Blue".

FmrFreightDog

88,

While I agree with you that the "downtown" language isn't optimal, the definition of "downtown" is pretty fluid IMO. CLT and RDU come to mind as two layovers that aren't technically downtown but are in a nice suburban area instead. Why we can't extend that concept to places like DAY, BHM, and TLH is beyond me. You would think the union and the company could easily find reasonable "short" and "long" hotels on a city by city basis without too much extra work. Like you said, though, "We've always done it this way..."

Nice flying with you the other day, btw.

Vikz09

Most likely I have my hands over my face, fearing for my life! Asking the captain how in he'll does the transportation company obtain insurance for all these terrible Eastern European drivers. A hour later, if we are lucky, we arrive at the hotel with my stomach so up set that I have to be a slam clicker.

BTW, do Lincoln towncars only allow for full gas peddle acceleration followed by full braking?

hockeypilot44

DTW is definitely a bad downtown layover.

Our PBI layover isn't bad. The van will take you to some good restaurants. Our PBI layover is not downtown by the way. If it was downtown, it would be better. On the beach would be even better.

Our MIA layover sucks. We should be on the beach. Besides that downtown MIA is dangerous.

I dislike our FLL layover. We should be on the beach or downtown.

The truly bad layovers are FNT, JAN, DAY, CAK, and most of the New York ones like SYR, ROC, ALB. Must be nice not going to the crap holes.