Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-05-2013, 06:39 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
OK, admit it. On the basis of Sienna Miller, the Dude is right.
From now on my excuse for everything is ... "because, Sienna Miller."
From now on my excuse for everything is ... "because, Sienna Miller."
12-05-2013, 06:59 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
12-05-2013, 07:06 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
12-05-2013, 07:14 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
F y i.
Originally Posted by finis72
A little side bet, betcha with that " massive " pay raise they don't make it to our level, I hope they way surpass us but I don't believe they will.
Ok, here you go finis:
THE USAIRWAYS MERGER TRANSITION AGREEMENT
Effective on the the date of P.O.R. Which is 12/9/13.
First, some work rules.
This agreement provides for a 1:2 for sit times in excess of two hours.
Distance learning: 50% of hourly rate.
Training: 4:00 per day. (Delta 3:45)
Defined contribution: Currently 14%
January 2014: 16%
Delta: 15%
Sick:
5 hours accrued per month
60 short term banked
940 long terms bank
1000 total and with rollover.
Allowed to sell back.
Rapid re-accrual of 7.5 hrs if out more than 30 days
United has 7hrs
Delta no rapid re-accrual, no rollover, no sell back and capped at 270 max.
Home basing in cities that support it.
COMPENSATION: All 12 year rates. 777 rates reflect group 4 which include 777, 767-4, 787, 340.
Next week on POR, the first raise.
A320 capt. 167.68. F/O 114.02
B777 capt. 213.02. F/O 144.00
January 2014. 8% increase.
A320 capt. 181.00. F/O 123.14
B777 capt. 230.06. F/O 156.44
January 2015. 3% increase.
A320 capt. 186.53. F/O 236.06
B777 capt. 236.00. F/O 161.00
January 2016. 16.5% increase.
A320 capt. 217.24. F/O 147.72
B777 capt. 275.98. F/O 187.67
If needed, on January 2017 a 3.5% increase. On January 2018, a 3.5% increase.
Why if needed you might ask? Here is the rest of the story.
From the MTA:
"MTA provides parity review that compares DAL and UAL as of January 1, 2016. The parity review will use the average of the DAL and UAL pay rates of the A320 and the 737-800 aircraft weighted for the ASM's flown by each airline."
The other groups will be adjusted from there.
Now, when the APA (USAPA will be offered a seat at the table along with the west pilots) negotiates their JCBA, these numbers can change. Likely up, not expecting down.
Other considerations. AMR pilots getting near $100k each from their portion of the company on exit/merger. Frozen DB plans.
LCC pilots portion of merger bonus 10-15k.
I will let you all discuss this without adding my own commentary.
Decide for yourselves how well the APA and USAPA guys did.
You all can do the math. Particularly on the wide body from 2016 on.
Someone is going to as about overtime
Premium pay is here:
. Premium Pay
1. In accordance with Section 15.L., the Company may designate at any time any sequence as
a premium pay sequence. Such sequence(s) willpay a premium of fifty percent (50%) over
the pilot's base hourly pay rate as specified in Section 3 (total is the base rate plus fifty
percent of the base rate), including international override as applicable.
2. Premium pay may be applied to an entire sequence, or portion of a sequence, as applicable
in the Agreement.
3. A sequence picked-up from open time (TTS) which is designated as a premium pay
sequence will have the fifty percent (50%) premium applied to all flown hours including any
Pay and Credit in the sequence. A pilot pay protected for a premium pay sequence who is
assigned replacement flying willbe pay protected for the value of a cancelled premium
sequence at the premium rate. In the event the credited time of the replacement flying is
greater than the credited value of the cancelled flying, the pilot will be paid for the additional
time at the regular hourly rate.
Example: If the credited value of the cancelled sequence is 8 hours, the pilot will be pay
protected for 12 hours. If the credited time of the replacement flying is 10 hours, the pilot will
be paid an additional 2 hours at the regular hourly rate, for a total of 14 hours.
4. A pilot awarded or assigned a premium pay sequence will be pay protected for the scheduled
value of the sequence, including the fifty percent (50%) premium.
5. A premium pay sequence that is traded to another pilot will have the premium designation
removed and such sequence will be paid at the base hourly pay rate.
6. Premium pay will not apply in the event a pilot does not operate the premium sequence due
to any voluntary action by the pilot, i.e calling in sick, fatigued, drops or trades the sequence
to another pilot. Premium pay will apply in the event a pilot does not operate the premium
sequence due to Company actions such as a reassignment, displacement, or any other
Company-enacted removal. Premium pay will apply to any removal that qualifies for
Sequence Protection as described in Section 4.C.
7. Recovery obligation replacement flyingdue to sequence cancellation and reserve
assignments will be paid at regular hourly pay rates. Premium pay does not apply to such
assignments.
8. Premium hours flown in the same month that a pilot uses sick leave will be offset by the
number of sick hours charged. Any remaining premium hours after the offset is applied will be
paid at the premium rate.
Example: A pilot uses sick leave for a 10 hours during the month. In the same month, the pilot
picks up 12 hours of premium sequence(s) (12 hours credit, 18 hours pay). For the purpose
of calculating the net premium pay for the month, subtract the total sick hours used from the
total premium hours. In this example the pilot’s premium pay for the month will be the 12
hours of premium sequence(s) reduced by the 10 sick hours used, leaving 2 hours to be paid
at 1.5 X, for a total of 1 hour additional pay (13 hours total pay for the premium sequence(s).
9. Premium hours flown will be uncredited towards a pilot's IMAX, but will be applied towards
FAR limitations. The pilot's PPROJ will be adjusted to include the fifty percent (50%)
premium.
10. Reassignment - if a pilot is reassigned outside the footprint of the pilot's original sequence,
the fifty percent (50%) premium is pay only. The pilot will be credited with the greater of
scheduled or what was actually flown. The premium does not apply to any additional credits
under 15.E., 15.F. or 15.Gthat were generated solely as a result of the reassignment
A little side bet, betcha with that " massive " pay raise they don't make it to our level, I hope they way surpass us but I don't believe they will.
Ok, here you go finis:
THE USAIRWAYS MERGER TRANSITION AGREEMENT
Effective on the the date of P.O.R. Which is 12/9/13.
First, some work rules.
This agreement provides for a 1:2 for sit times in excess of two hours.
Distance learning: 50% of hourly rate.
Training: 4:00 per day. (Delta 3:45)
Defined contribution: Currently 14%
January 2014: 16%
Delta: 15%
Sick:
5 hours accrued per month
60 short term banked
940 long terms bank
1000 total and with rollover.
Allowed to sell back.
Rapid re-accrual of 7.5 hrs if out more than 30 days
United has 7hrs
Delta no rapid re-accrual, no rollover, no sell back and capped at 270 max.
Home basing in cities that support it.
COMPENSATION: All 12 year rates. 777 rates reflect group 4 which include 777, 767-4, 787, 340.
Next week on POR, the first raise.
A320 capt. 167.68. F/O 114.02
B777 capt. 213.02. F/O 144.00
January 2014. 8% increase.
A320 capt. 181.00. F/O 123.14
B777 capt. 230.06. F/O 156.44
January 2015. 3% increase.
A320 capt. 186.53. F/O 236.06
B777 capt. 236.00. F/O 161.00
January 2016. 16.5% increase.
A320 capt. 217.24. F/O 147.72
B777 capt. 275.98. F/O 187.67
If needed, on January 2017 a 3.5% increase. On January 2018, a 3.5% increase.
Why if needed you might ask? Here is the rest of the story.
From the MTA:
"MTA provides parity review that compares DAL and UAL as of January 1, 2016. The parity review will use the average of the DAL and UAL pay rates of the A320 and the 737-800 aircraft weighted for the ASM's flown by each airline."
The other groups will be adjusted from there.
Now, when the APA (USAPA will be offered a seat at the table along with the west pilots) negotiates their JCBA, these numbers can change. Likely up, not expecting down.
Other considerations. AMR pilots getting near $100k each from their portion of the company on exit/merger. Frozen DB plans.
LCC pilots portion of merger bonus 10-15k.
I will let you all discuss this without adding my own commentary.
Decide for yourselves how well the APA and USAPA guys did.
You all can do the math. Particularly on the wide body from 2016 on.
Someone is going to as about overtime
Premium pay is here:
. Premium Pay
1. In accordance with Section 15.L., the Company may designate at any time any sequence as
a premium pay sequence. Such sequence(s) willpay a premium of fifty percent (50%) over
the pilot's base hourly pay rate as specified in Section 3 (total is the base rate plus fifty
percent of the base rate), including international override as applicable.
2. Premium pay may be applied to an entire sequence, or portion of a sequence, as applicable
in the Agreement.
3. A sequence picked-up from open time (TTS) which is designated as a premium pay
sequence will have the fifty percent (50%) premium applied to all flown hours including any
Pay and Credit in the sequence. A pilot pay protected for a premium pay sequence who is
assigned replacement flying willbe pay protected for the value of a cancelled premium
sequence at the premium rate. In the event the credited time of the replacement flying is
greater than the credited value of the cancelled flying, the pilot will be paid for the additional
time at the regular hourly rate.
Example: If the credited value of the cancelled sequence is 8 hours, the pilot will be pay
protected for 12 hours. If the credited time of the replacement flying is 10 hours, the pilot will
be paid an additional 2 hours at the regular hourly rate, for a total of 14 hours.
4. A pilot awarded or assigned a premium pay sequence will be pay protected for the scheduled
value of the sequence, including the fifty percent (50%) premium.
5. A premium pay sequence that is traded to another pilot will have the premium designation
removed and such sequence will be paid at the base hourly pay rate.
6. Premium pay will not apply in the event a pilot does not operate the premium sequence due
to any voluntary action by the pilot, i.e calling in sick, fatigued, drops or trades the sequence
to another pilot. Premium pay will apply in the event a pilot does not operate the premium
sequence due to Company actions such as a reassignment, displacement, or any other
Company-enacted removal. Premium pay will apply to any removal that qualifies for
Sequence Protection as described in Section 4.C.
7. Recovery obligation replacement flyingdue to sequence cancellation and reserve
assignments will be paid at regular hourly pay rates. Premium pay does not apply to such
assignments.
8. Premium hours flown in the same month that a pilot uses sick leave will be offset by the
number of sick hours charged. Any remaining premium hours after the offset is applied will be
paid at the premium rate.
Example: A pilot uses sick leave for a 10 hours during the month. In the same month, the pilot
picks up 12 hours of premium sequence(s) (12 hours credit, 18 hours pay). For the purpose
of calculating the net premium pay for the month, subtract the total sick hours used from the
total premium hours. In this example the pilot’s premium pay for the month will be the 12
hours of premium sequence(s) reduced by the 10 sick hours used, leaving 2 hours to be paid
at 1.5 X, for a total of 1 hour additional pay (13 hours total pay for the premium sequence(s).
9. Premium hours flown will be uncredited towards a pilot's IMAX, but will be applied towards
FAR limitations. The pilot's PPROJ will be adjusted to include the fifty percent (50%)
premium.
10. Reassignment - if a pilot is reassigned outside the footprint of the pilot's original sequence,
the fifty percent (50%) premium is pay only. The pilot will be credited with the greater of
scheduled or what was actually flown. The premium does not apply to any additional credits
under 15.E., 15.F. or 15.Gthat were generated solely as a result of the reassignment
12-05-2013, 07:48 PM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
12-05-2013, 07:53 PM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
12-05-2013, 08:22 PM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
The latest DALPA email had me until this line:
Seriously? That's supposed to keep me from renewing? Someone needs to stop patting themselves on the back and wake up. They put the fear of God into pilots who do their best to avoid risk and got them to pass that POS and for that they think C2012 was something to try and repeat?
DALPA is telling me they're good with more of this:
- minimal wage improvement
- reduced profit sharing
- concessions on scope
- concessions on monthly bidding days in summer months
- concessions on sick day "reasonable" clause
- concessions on ALV +15
- poorly worded scope language that allows the company to get away with ignoring Asia-Pacific scope without immediate and known penalties
Just to name a few.
GMAFB
"C2012 demonstrated what was possible when scheduled negotiations intersect with a passing opportunity, and a strong, well-prepared union was capable of taking advantage of the situation to negotiate improvements to the Pilot Working Agreement."
Seriously? That's supposed to keep me from renewing? Someone needs to stop patting themselves on the back and wake up. They put the fear of God into pilots who do their best to avoid risk and got them to pass that POS and for that they think C2012 was something to try and repeat?
DALPA is telling me they're good with more of this:
- minimal wage improvement
- reduced profit sharing
- concessions on scope
- concessions on monthly bidding days in summer months
- concessions on sick day "reasonable" clause
- concessions on ALV +15
- poorly worded scope language that allows the company to get away with ignoring Asia-Pacific scope without immediate and known penalties
Just to name a few.
GMAFB
Not arguing
Less RJs allowed and a BHR is a concession how?
30 to 31 day bid period not arguing
100 free hours unverified of sick call use is a concession how?
ALV + 15 should be WB only IMO
You're going to have to expand on the Asia scope claims.
You're claiming all of these things are concessions without explaining why. Please expand.
Last edited by johnso29; 12-05-2013 at 09:05 PM.
12-05-2013, 09:24 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Permanently scarred
Posts: 1,707
Making the most of any legacy airline pilot group (I see what you did there)
reduced profit sharing - not arguing √
Less RJs allowed and a BHR is a concession how? More 76 seaters; 50 seaters were going away...same old discussion; you're not going to change your tune; agree to disagree.
30 to 31 day bid period not arguin √
100 free hours unverified of sick call use is a concession how? (see highlights, personal testimonies in some of the past 2000 pages here)
ALV + 15 should be WB only IMO √
You're going to have to expand on the Asia scope claims.
You're claiming all of these things are concessions without explaining why. Please expand.
reduced profit sharing - not arguing √
Less RJs allowed and a BHR is a concession how? More 76 seaters; 50 seaters were going away...same old discussion; you're not going to change your tune; agree to disagree.
30 to 31 day bid period not arguin √
100 free hours unverified of sick call use is a concession how? (see highlights, personal testimonies in some of the past 2000 pages here)
ALV + 15 should be WB only IMO √
You're going to have to expand on the Asia scope claims.
You're claiming all of these things are concessions without explaining why. Please expand.
Had to laugh, not at you, but just laugh....I came to check the thread and saw you had the most recent post. I just knew you were commenting on what I posted. Which is fine, but I knew it.
It's kind of like I just know no one from (D)ALPA is going to say the union has made a mistake in the past (fill in the blank) years. 6? (at least since I've been here. Can you recall any acknowledgement of regret on anything? Batting 1.000
I mean, I'd be willing to be more open to their DPA criticism if they'd look in the mirror and be honest just once in a while. But in ALPA land it's "We're the shinning knight, and that Orc over there wants to castrate you."
12-05-2013, 09:41 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
[COLOR="blue"]
It's kind of like I just know no one from (D)ALPA is going to say the union has made a mistake in the past (fill in the blank) years. 6? (at least since I've been here. Can you recall any acknowledgement of regret on anything? Batting 1.000
I mean, I'd be willing to be more open to their DPA criticism if they'd look in the mirror and be honest just once in a while. But in ALPA land it's "We're the shinning knight, and that Orc over there wants to castrate you."
It's kind of like I just know no one from (D)ALPA is going to say the union has made a mistake in the past (fill in the blank) years. 6? (at least since I've been here. Can you recall any acknowledgement of regret on anything? Batting 1.000
I mean, I'd be willing to be more open to their DPA criticism if they'd look in the mirror and be honest just once in a while. But in ALPA land it's "We're the shinning knight, and that Orc over there wants to castrate you."
If we, as a pilot group, can't expect more (no, demand more) during a time of record company profits AND incredible operations tempo and success, we are selling out. I don't believe in complete restoration but I expect much more than the gradual, let's call it what it is, COLA, then we are patsies. I expect much much more from us and our union.
I agree with Bar. The company will not accept nor endure stock prices going south. If ALPA doesn't go in strong, I'll be disenfranchised.
12-05-2013, 11:42 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
I agree completely. I'm not a DPA supporter, although I did send in my card early on, but DALPAs constant chest pounding over minimal gains and some pretty significant losses troubles me. The message yesterday screams more of the same.
If we, as a pilot group, can't expect more (no, demand more) during a time of record company profits AND incredible operations tempo and success, we are selling out. I don't believe in complete restoration but I expect much more than the gradual, let's call it what it is, COLA, then we are patsies. I expect much much more from us and our union.
I agree with Bar. The company will not accept nor endure stock prices going south. If ALPA doesn't go in strong, I'll be disenfranchised.
If we, as a pilot group, can't expect more (no, demand more) during a time of record company profits AND incredible operations tempo and success, we are selling out. I don't believe in complete restoration but I expect much more than the gradual, let's call it what it is, COLA, then we are patsies. I expect much much more from us and our union.
I agree with Bar. The company will not accept nor endure stock prices going south. If ALPA doesn't go in strong, I'll be disenfranchised.
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