scambo1

Buzz,
I was fortunate to never have been furloughed. However, what I don't know are the specific dates of each furlough (without research) and the respective bypasses by each person within those dates.

You changed your post after I quoted it. No, I never thought anyone was just furloughed for a week or a month. I was using extreme time spans to make the point that people moved on. Even after rereading my post I don't know how you took it any other way.

buzzpat

Scambo,

It was long and ugly. I was one of the first 400 furloughed after 9/11. We furloughed at least another 800-1000. The shortest was about 5 years. We had at least one guy commit suicide. And we had guys green slipping during that duration. Hard times for all I know but lots of fraternal love was lost.

Sure, guys have moved on but I guarantee you that almost nobody counted on getting hired at DAL and being on the street shortly thereafter. I had several gigs post furlough and wanted to come back. I don't begrudge anybody who was cut loose for five plus years for finding something else to provide for them and their families.

scambo1

I was initially responding to scoop about my viewpoint that with the length of time bypassed that resignations would not affect future contract negotiations, from my perspective. I was not belittling furlough experiences. Job loss affects each individual differently. I was never furloughed.

However, if there is a reason why/how a pilots resignation would affect future negotiations, I'd like to know what they are.

buzzpat

Scambo,

You're a good dude but the fact that you don't know who and for how long your fellow pilots were furloughed is indicative of what's wrong with our pilot group. There shouldn't be a single Delta pilot who doesn't understand how many and for how long we put guys on the street. Is that an ALPA problem or a Delta pilot culture problem? We hire guys, kick them to the curb, guys green slip (not implying you did of course) and can't recount why and how? There's no "fraternal" there. That's despicable. That's a problem. F the junior guys, what's in it for me?

Timbo

If I'd been in that group, furloughed 5+ years, and found a good gig with good pay and some job security, I seriously doubt if I'd ever come back.

There is no guarantee they won't be furloughed again in the next big economic downturn/terrorist event, etc.

And Buzz, I heard from a CP there were a lot more than just one suicide. Somehow DL managed to keep them out of the press. 8 was the number he told me.

Hey, it's Saturday Night, am I the only one watching OK State beat up on undefeated Baylor? And what about FL State putting up 80 points today...if Jamis can stay out of jail the next couple of weeks, he could... go... all... the... way! (insert Howard Cosell voice)

Seems to be a weekend of mismatches, upsets (FL?) and blowouts with huge point spreads, scores running into the 50's, 60's and on up to the Noles 80! Next weekend is the big rivalry weekend though, glad I'm off for that.

scambo1

Buzz,

If you need a scapegoat, fine I'll be him. I think it's a bit high handed though to think that everyone should know everything about every furloughee. I know the time frames, I know nwa brought guys back and put them back on the street. I don't know their names or what they did. I know ALPA defended the guys that green slipped. I disagreed with that.

Just not sure where you want to go with this.

buzzpat

To your point Scambo, resignations should send a signal to both DALPA and DAL that this isn't the end all, be all. We are the best, right? We treat our employees well, right? Well, when some if the best say sayonara there's something wrong. That's how it affects future negotiations. And when contracts allow for junior/furloughed guys to be taken advantage of for compensatory gains by senior guys, that also affects negotiations.

Simply, we, as an industry leading and world leading pilot group need to overcome the temptation to be greedy at the expense of our own. I'm no longer a new hire and I see things much more clearly. We eat our young and management loves it. I don't really aspire to get involved with the union but I'll be damned if I'll continue to watch our current mode of business to continue.

A lot of you like to bag on Carl. I get it. But, you know, Carl, a senior dude, gets it way more than most of you. Delta pilots, IMHO, are self-absorbed and selfish. Why would I naturally be fraternally connected to that?

buzzpat

Scambo

Nothing personal. Just saying that you, and all, Delta guys should have a relative feel, towards the numbers and time frames of your furloughed peers, that's all. Names aren't important. My brother in law is a Delta CA and he can't recall my furlough experience or time frame. That blows me away. His *****....the fact that he had to contribute to the medical insurance fund and that we're allowed to continue our seniority while on furlough. For the record, I greatly appreciated my fellow pilots who contributed to the medical fund. I had TRICARE Prime so I didn't need it. A lot of my buds survived on it.

Bottom line: we should be a unified group across the board. We ain't.

scambo1

Buzz,
Even when I was hired, pilots left for what they viewed as greener pastures. I think the evidence proves that neither Delta nor DALPA believe this is the best, cream of the crop, top of the pyramid, etc job anymore. For some it still is.

Bar has for years been harping on unity. It falls on deaf ears...even within our union. You are looking for leadership that doesn't exist. Others just stopped looking. What we have is a void of leadership. This results in a void of followership, or an every man for himself free for all.

buzzpat

That's sad Scambo. Not disagreeing. Just sad. I'd like for that to change. Cheers brother. Happy holidays.