Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-18-2013, 03:47 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Isn't it sad that you have to "hope" that Bar? Isn't it sad that you don't know for certain that ALPA is finished with scope sales?
Carl
11-18-2013, 03:59 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
That's not even the point. The only point is: Do we pilots have the stones.
Translation: DALPA knows how to accept whatever the first offer is, then claim the time value of money is always the best results for pilots. No worry about ever striking if your strategy is to take the first offer.
Translation: Take the first offer and the associated COLA gains. And then let's just all pray that we never get 50% taken away again.
Carl
Carl
11-18-2013, 05:28 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
Let me get this straight, you're now saying Janus and Delta used mind games to stack the deck with non strikers or anti union types ? T is right, you must truly wear a tinfoil hat. Think about what you are saying and then go back and compare contracts for the past 30 years and I'll bet you the DALPA contracts are at the top of the industry. You said you've been through 2 strikes and I really do respect you for that, however, we were able to get at least equal and most time better contracts than you got. Different companies and managements require different strategies. You and I both got to the same place through different paths but for you to cast dispersion on the way us southies got there is just wrong.
We have always had a 10% to 15% group that hated DALPA for real and imagined reasons and back before agency shop most of them were just cheap and they used their "reasons" as justification. Funny how the membership number changed after agency shop.
I must have snuck in then. Was on strike at UPS in the mid 70's , then hired on at Delta in the 80's. Delta knew my full employment history. Janus was more concerned about family life, my drinking habits, etc.
The no strike personality profile is flawed logic.
We have always had a 10% to 15% group that hated DALPA for real and imagined reasons and back before agency shop most of them were just cheap and they used their "reasons" as justification. Funny how the membership number changed after agency shop.
I must have snuck in then. Was on strike at UPS in the mid 70's , then hired on at Delta in the 80's. Delta knew my full employment history. Janus was more concerned about family life, my drinking habits, etc.
The no strike personality profile is flawed logic.
First question, Why do you want to work for Delta? "Delta's a great company and does not go on strike" J's response, "and its my job to ensure that we don't." Questions about family, flying with crews, etc. Last question from me to J, how long have you and your father been doing this for Delta? J's response 12 years, I replied that's a great deal...he said they preferred to call it a professional association...I think he thought I was questioning his professional status.
I believe they were looking for team players, enthusiasm and deference to authority.
11-18-2013, 05:44 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
I wasn't dogging you Scambo. You just hit on THE reason why we need a national presence. And yes, I do not back the PAC, and that is a quandary I wrestle with more than you can imagine. You can certainly believe that CAPA and the other groups have as good a chance to stop the sand fleas from invading if you so choose. I have no such illusions.
11-18-2013, 05:51 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Starboard Side, weekends & holidays.
Posts: 856
Apparently we've crossed over into Alex Jones' territory with the latest DPA update.
Not an ALPA supporter by any stretch, but I have a hard time finding this credible:
We have heard you loud and clear regarding how we should handle the hacking incident. This past Saturday, we turned the investigation over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (IC3) for resolution. Our decision to do this was accelerated by your input and by a phone call from a group of pro-ALPA Delta Pilots claiming to be the hackers.
On Friday, a person claiming to be the hacker called the private residence of the DPA Founder, Tim Caplinger, three times. The caller claimed responsibility for the hack but would not reveal his identity. He claimed to be working with at least one, if not two, other Delta Pilots. His partner had "considerable technical expertise" as he put it. He claimed to have used Tim's personal information to access our account. He claimed to have done the damage from the Starbucks hotspot in the ATL Hilton downtown layover on Friday night, November 8th with a witness/accomplice at his side. He asked for DPA to stop the pursuit and even offered to give Tim money for his "inconvenience" suffered.
Tim refused to accept the money and then offered the hacker one opportunity to reveal his identity and make a public apology. The hacker refused, stating that it would be "professional suicide". DPA will pursue this until the identities of all involved are known and held accountable.
Tim traced the calls and handed the case over to the FBI. How long the FBI investigation will take is unknown.
Folks, we know ALPA has a propensity to create secret committees like the "Special Committee" recently uncovered through the Recall of the MEC Chairman. This hack could be the product of an offshoot of the Special Committee or it could be ALPA members taking direction from leadership to conduct the crime. Either way, it wasn't smart.
Because this event directly harmed 5,700 Delta Pilots who are lawfully organizing, we must take action. DPA suffered direct financial harm when the link to our Donations was broken for over a week. When the FBI concludes their investigation, we will reassess next steps. It is unfortunate that it has come to this.
For an in-depth look at the Special Committee, we have added a follow-up article under DPA News that provides a comprehensive collection of comments made by various LEC Reps and members. Of particular interest are the CVG comments.
CLICK HERE to read the Recall Summary (scroll down).
There is only one way to put this issue to bed for good.....create a representation vote. You have direct control over that process. Focus ALL of your energy on collecting Authorization Cards RIGHT NOW. We need new members and renewals, so make sure you are asking the question throughout the day. Carry blank Cards with you to have fellow pilots fill out on the spot after you tell them your story. Mail them in to DPA as fast as you can. If we work together, we can defeat this problem once and for all.
Not an ALPA supporter by any stretch, but I have a hard time finding this credible:
We have heard you loud and clear regarding how we should handle the hacking incident. This past Saturday, we turned the investigation over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (IC3) for resolution. Our decision to do this was accelerated by your input and by a phone call from a group of pro-ALPA Delta Pilots claiming to be the hackers.
On Friday, a person claiming to be the hacker called the private residence of the DPA Founder, Tim Caplinger, three times. The caller claimed responsibility for the hack but would not reveal his identity. He claimed to be working with at least one, if not two, other Delta Pilots. His partner had "considerable technical expertise" as he put it. He claimed to have used Tim's personal information to access our account. He claimed to have done the damage from the Starbucks hotspot in the ATL Hilton downtown layover on Friday night, November 8th with a witness/accomplice at his side. He asked for DPA to stop the pursuit and even offered to give Tim money for his "inconvenience" suffered.
Tim refused to accept the money and then offered the hacker one opportunity to reveal his identity and make a public apology. The hacker refused, stating that it would be "professional suicide". DPA will pursue this until the identities of all involved are known and held accountable.
Tim traced the calls and handed the case over to the FBI. How long the FBI investigation will take is unknown.
Folks, we know ALPA has a propensity to create secret committees like the "Special Committee" recently uncovered through the Recall of the MEC Chairman. This hack could be the product of an offshoot of the Special Committee or it could be ALPA members taking direction from leadership to conduct the crime. Either way, it wasn't smart.
Because this event directly harmed 5,700 Delta Pilots who are lawfully organizing, we must take action. DPA suffered direct financial harm when the link to our Donations was broken for over a week. When the FBI concludes their investigation, we will reassess next steps. It is unfortunate that it has come to this.
For an in-depth look at the Special Committee, we have added a follow-up article under DPA News that provides a comprehensive collection of comments made by various LEC Reps and members. Of particular interest are the CVG comments.
CLICK HERE to read the Recall Summary (scroll down).
There is only one way to put this issue to bed for good.....create a representation vote. You have direct control over that process. Focus ALL of your energy on collecting Authorization Cards RIGHT NOW. We need new members and renewals, so make sure you are asking the question throughout the day. Carry blank Cards with you to have fellow pilots fill out on the spot after you tell them your story. Mail them in to DPA as fast as you can. If we work together, we can defeat this problem once and for all.
11-18-2013, 06:09 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
So let me get this straight ... the DPA, who wants to protect all Delta pilot's back sides reaches the decision to pursue an investigation which among it's possible outcomes, seeks criminal prosecution against some of the pilots it wishes to represent?
Oh, so, how do I know if I step on my crank what decision the DPA might make to represent me?
So if true, which is far from even credibly alleged, we know that our "new union" might throw some of our pilots under the bus of Federal Investigation? Great job, maybe you can help some guys lose their jobs too ... where do I sign up for your version of representation?
Not that I expect this latest failure of judgement to really harm anyone. The FBI's mission is to protect the United States of America.
Further, does the DPA not have security sufficient to keep a kid in a coffee shop with mad skillz from taking them out? Can't wait for contract negotiations when there are Billions at stake and Delta management has some of the best IT folks on the planet at their disposal.
If the DPA held a car wash fund raiser ....
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 11-18-2013 at 06:27 PM.
11-18-2013, 06:29 PM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
So DPA should let itself get steamrolled by a bunch of thugs allegedly engaged in felonious activity by subverting US commerce and labor laws (among others). Even if no crime was committed, are you really going to defend such actions on behalf of "our" "union?"
How about this: ALPA operatives allegedly hacked fellow ALPA members. If that is proved true, would you be upset?
You would be breathing into a paper bag if ALPA turned a blind eye in a similar situation.
Last edited by Purple Drank; 11-18-2013 at 06:43 PM.
11-18-2013, 06:29 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
So let me get this straight ... the DPA, who wants to protect all Delta pilot's back sides reaches the decision to pursue an investigation which among it's possible outcomes, seeks criminal prosecution against some of the pilots it wishes to represent?
Oh, so, how do I know if I step on my crank what decision the DPA might make to represent me?
So if true, which is far from even credibly alleged, we know that our "new union" might throw some of our pilots under the bus of Federal Investigation? Great job, maybe you can help some guys lose their jobs too ... where do I sign up for your version of representation?
Not that I expect this latest failure of judgement to really harm anyone. The FBI's mission is to protect the United States of America. It really doesn't get involved in "hacking" unless the security of a government interest is compromised.
Further, does the DPA not have security sufficient to keep a kid in a coffee shop with mad skillz from taking them out? Can't wait for contract negotiations when there are Billions at stake and Delta management has some of the best IT folks on the planet at their disposal.
Oh, so, how do I know if I step on my crank what decision the DPA might make to represent me?
So if true, which is far from even credibly alleged, we know that our "new union" might throw some of our pilots under the bus of Federal Investigation? Great job, maybe you can help some guys lose their jobs too ... where do I sign up for your version of representation?
Not that I expect this latest failure of judgement to really harm anyone. The FBI's mission is to protect the United States of America. It really doesn't get involved in "hacking" unless the security of a government interest is compromised.
Further, does the DPA not have security sufficient to keep a kid in a coffee shop with mad skillz from taking them out? Can't wait for contract negotiations when there are Billions at stake and Delta management has some of the best IT folks on the planet at their disposal.
Simple question Bar. What if I as a DPA supporter wanted to help my cause along by hacking into ALPA national's website, redirect it to a fake site that denigrated ALPA, then disconnected the funding link to the ALPA PAC. Would you argue to ALPA that they shouldn't investigate it because old Carl might get in legal trouble?
The question is rhetorical because there's no possibility you'd defend my actions. Like I've told you many times before, your outrage is fake, selective, and highly partisan.
Carl
11-18-2013, 06:31 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 364
I agree this latest DPA email is over the top. With no evidence they try and link this to the ALPA special committee or an off shoot. Not only that but they are going after a pilot they want to represent. I seem to remember multiple times where Tim has said when this is all over we need to leave the past behind us and welcome all pilots with open arms.
I had some hope that DPA was turning a more rational corner but the past two emails have me believing they have not. For those off you that don't get the Crew Van News updates from DPA in the previous email they went after the kits ALPA has been handing out in layover hotels. The attacking of the costs and the tactic of being in the layover hotels was fair game but the insinuation that ALPA had possibly put something evil on the thumbdrive was over the top.
TC continues to derail the DPA movement and until he steps aside they will not succeed.
I had some hope that DPA was turning a more rational corner but the past two emails have me believing they have not. For those off you that don't get the Crew Van News updates from DPA in the previous email they went after the kits ALPA has been handing out in layover hotels. The attacking of the costs and the tactic of being in the layover hotels was fair game but the insinuation that ALPA had possibly put something evil on the thumbdrive was over the top.
TC continues to derail the DPA movement and until he steps aside they will not succeed.
11-18-2013, 06:32 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,169
Apparently we've crossed over into Alex Jones' territory with the latest DPA update.
Not an ALPA supporter by any stretch, but I have a hard time finding this credible:
We have heard you loud and clear regarding how we should handle the hacking incident. This past Saturday, we turned the investigation over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (IC3) for resolution. Our decision to do this was accelerated by your input and by a phone call from a group of pro-ALPA Delta Pilots claiming to be the hackers.
On Friday, a person claiming to be the hacker called the private residence of the DPA Founder, Tim Caplinger, three times. The caller claimed responsibility for the hack but would not reveal his identity. He claimed to be working with at least one, if not two, other Delta Pilots. His partner had "considerable technical expertise" as he put it. He claimed to have used Tim's personal information to access our account. He claimed to have done the damage from the Starbucks hotspot in the ATL Hilton downtown layover on Friday night, November 8th with a witness/accomplice at his side. He asked for DPA to stop the pursuit and even offered to give Tim money for his "inconvenience" suffered.
Tim refused to accept the money and then offered the hacker one opportunity to reveal his identity and make a public apology. The hacker refused, stating that it would be "professional suicide". DPA will pursue this until the identities of all involved are known and held accountable.
Tim traced the calls and handed the case over to the FBI. How long the FBI investigation will take is unknown.
Folks, we know ALPA has a propensity to create secret committees like the "Special Committee" recently uncovered through the Recall of the MEC Chairman. This hack could be the product of an offshoot of the Special Committee or it could be ALPA members taking direction from leadership to conduct the crime. Either way, it wasn't smart.
Because this event directly harmed 5,700 Delta Pilots who are lawfully organizing, we must take action. DPA suffered direct financial harm when the link to our Donations was broken for over a week. When the FBI concludes their investigation, we will reassess next steps. It is unfortunate that it has come to this.
For an in-depth look at the Special Committee, we have added a follow-up article under DPA News that provides a comprehensive collection of comments made by various LEC Reps and members. Of particular interest are the CVG comments.
CLICK HERE to read the Recall Summary (scroll down).
There is only one way to put this issue to bed for good.....create a representation vote. You have direct control over that process. Focus ALL of your energy on collecting Authorization Cards RIGHT NOW. We need new members and renewals, so make sure you are asking the question throughout the day. Carry blank Cards with you to have fellow pilots fill out on the spot after you tell them your story. Mail them in to DPA as fast as you can. If we work together, we can defeat this problem once and for all.
Not an ALPA supporter by any stretch, but I have a hard time finding this credible:
We have heard you loud and clear regarding how we should handle the hacking incident. This past Saturday, we turned the investigation over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (IC3) for resolution. Our decision to do this was accelerated by your input and by a phone call from a group of pro-ALPA Delta Pilots claiming to be the hackers.
On Friday, a person claiming to be the hacker called the private residence of the DPA Founder, Tim Caplinger, three times. The caller claimed responsibility for the hack but would not reveal his identity. He claimed to be working with at least one, if not two, other Delta Pilots. His partner had "considerable technical expertise" as he put it. He claimed to have used Tim's personal information to access our account. He claimed to have done the damage from the Starbucks hotspot in the ATL Hilton downtown layover on Friday night, November 8th with a witness/accomplice at his side. He asked for DPA to stop the pursuit and even offered to give Tim money for his "inconvenience" suffered.
Tim refused to accept the money and then offered the hacker one opportunity to reveal his identity and make a public apology. The hacker refused, stating that it would be "professional suicide". DPA will pursue this until the identities of all involved are known and held accountable.
Tim traced the calls and handed the case over to the FBI. How long the FBI investigation will take is unknown.
Folks, we know ALPA has a propensity to create secret committees like the "Special Committee" recently uncovered through the Recall of the MEC Chairman. This hack could be the product of an offshoot of the Special Committee or it could be ALPA members taking direction from leadership to conduct the crime. Either way, it wasn't smart.
Because this event directly harmed 5,700 Delta Pilots who are lawfully organizing, we must take action. DPA suffered direct financial harm when the link to our Donations was broken for over a week. When the FBI concludes their investigation, we will reassess next steps. It is unfortunate that it has come to this.
For an in-depth look at the Special Committee, we have added a follow-up article under DPA News that provides a comprehensive collection of comments made by various LEC Reps and members. Of particular interest are the CVG comments.
CLICK HERE to read the Recall Summary (scroll down).
There is only one way to put this issue to bed for good.....create a representation vote. You have direct control over that process. Focus ALL of your energy on collecting Authorization Cards RIGHT NOW. We need new members and renewals, so make sure you are asking the question throughout the day. Carry blank Cards with you to have fellow pilots fill out on the spot after you tell them your story. Mail them in to DPA as fast as you can. If we work together, we can defeat this problem once and for all.
GMAFB.
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