Originally Posted by Whidbey

Denny,

It is also off track in the same way that nearly most guys on here are when they talk about leverage and which factors effect negotiations.

The bottom line is that when there are thousands of people lining up to do the same job as you for less pay and benefits, you have no leverage.

When your union represents the people who are undercutting you, you've got an even bigger problem.

Originally Posted by volav8r1

Just used mine last week. Just check in from home and you will be automatically added to the list.

FYI: My wife and I went from MSP to LAX then continued to Hawaii. The flight was a thru flight in LAX with an equipment swap from a 73N to a 757. We did not get upgraded in MSP (shocking right?) but the leg from LAX to OGG was wide open since Delta doesn't allow miles upgrades to Hawaii. When we inquired in LAX as to why we weren't on the upgrade list, we were told that you have to clear on the original flight or you can't be upgraded on the 2nd segment. I was floored! So, short version is: my wife and I sat crammed in the back of a 757 for 5.5 hrs while skywest employees and buddy pass riders stretched out in 1st class!

Also, you are not eligible for premium seats (exit rows, economy comfort, certain isle seats, etc..) unless you pay for it!

Good luck!

Originally Posted by Xray678

I would love have our pay restored, but how can Delta pay us a large premium over other airlines without affecting our financial results? I don't think as easy as saying we want pay restoration. We have to chip away at it while allowing the rest of the industry time to catch up, or even surpass us.

Originally Posted by tsquare

And again, I have never intimated otherwise. We have given up a lot. But a contract negotiations is just that... negotiations. The company is going to want something that we do not want. Ergo, what you and 88driver call a giveback will be asked for. You have three options. Agree to it entirely, say no, or try to soften the blow with a gain somewhere else. What I hear from you and him is that we have already given, so we will not do that. Got news for ya, that won't work. But Carl, Timmy and that bunch probably think we will be showing big balls if we go down that path. At least that is the impression I get from them... I firmly believe that we can get 100% restoration of payrates (whatever that is) on day 1. ONE HUNDRED PERCENT. Of course it might cost us some more productivity enhancements or 2 weeks of vacation, or maybe a minimum ALV of 90... but it could be done. Do you want that? So think about it again. Everything is negotiable.

Originally Posted by GunshipGuy

T, between the last TA and your arguments you've convinced me. My schedule is already much worse than it was 2 years ago. So with all that in mind my hope is maybe the company negotiators will show some compassion toward our pilot group and let our negotiators proudly walk away from the table next time with 3/3/3/3/3/3/3/3/3/3/3/3 with the contract as is, or at worst maybe just another 1/3 give back on profit sharing in return. Eventually we'll be back to restoration (-inflation).

Originally Posted by scambo1

DAL 88,
I agree with your logic / math on a 1 hour segment, but not on a 12 hour segment, although the same basic idea applies.

Additionally, fees work inversely. A $50 bag fee going ATL-HSV is a lot more onerous than a $50 bag fee going ATL-DXB.

Maybe a tip jar would help us.

Funding our retirements is also a hit which is not entirely accounted for. I'd view DAL funding our 401k's to the 415C limit a lot more favorably than a 10-15% raise. It also has the added benefit of not being a wall st concern.

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

That, by definition, is exactly what he, tsquare, and any number of DALPA officials and aficionados think.

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

That might not be such a bad idea. Let's do some back of the napkin math...

I'm going to say, on the MD-88 our average load factor (including the MD-90's) is 145. At an average of 3 legs per day, 16 days per month... that is 6,960 passengers for the month or 83,520 passengers for the year. Let's say each passenger tips us $7 (a little less than the tip one would leave the waiter for a $50 meal). We split it $4 for the Captain and $3 for the First Officer. That's $334K for the Captain for the year and $250K for the First Officer.

Kinda puts it into perspective doesn't it?

Originally Posted by gloopy

Agreed on that 100%.

As for the Heller example, I still think the 14th is pretty clear in defending our rights, but worst case if we interpreted it your way, I'd gladly let the Chicago (and DC, etc) state/city level bans stand in exchange for eliminating all federal restrictions.