Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-22-2013, 10:23 PM
meh
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 828
Question for tsquare or anyone else proposing LGBP. I'm not educated on the pros and cOns and would like more info. Has anyone posted a decent wrap up on it or doe we have a chunk of pages here where it was well discussed? My gut leans toward LGBP but I suspect there would be loopholes opened for company I don't foresee.
Any links to well thought coverage appreciated.
Any links to well thought coverage appreciated.
10-23-2013, 04:04 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
Question for tsquare or anyone else proposing LGBP. I'm not educated on the pros and cOns and would like more info. Has anyone posted a decent wrap up on it or doe we have a chunk of pages here where it was well discussed? My gut leans toward LGBP but I suspect there would be loopholes opened for company I don't foresee.
Any links to well thought coverage appreciated.
Any links to well thought coverage appreciated.
10-23-2013, 04:29 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Position: On the hotel shuttle
Posts: 5,907
Just checked out the new 2.0 forum. Big thumbs down for me. My personal feeling is that some in DALPA are afraid of DPA and thus are afraid of an open rant forum.
I'm not a DPA supporter, but the thing I hate most about ALPA is the way they waste our money trying to "educate" us. I was offended by the pilots tasked to hang out in the crew lounges to sell C2012. Let the damn thing stand on it's own merits! I wasn't satisfied with 4833 (and the reduction in profit sharing to get there), but I voted for it because I didn't think sending the group who gave it to us was going to go back and make any meaningful gains. I certainly didn't need a fellow pilot on flight pay loss in the lounge to tell me what a great deal it was.
Now I hear that Dalpa has a plan to send pilots on flight pay loss around the world to layover bars to defend ALPA. YHGTBSM! I don't know about the rest of ya'll, but this is not how I want my dues money spent. Give the pilots a little credit for having a brain.
I still support ALPA as my bargaining agent, but I am getting close to changing my mind. Are you listening DALPA! If you are the clear best choice for the pilots at DAL, then start acting like it. Give the pilots you are trying to win over a little credit. We didn't end up here because we are stupid.
Now back to the forum. I totally agree that most of the crap that was on Hangar Talk was just that...crap. The problem is that every once in a while there is some really useful information there. I think the open free-for-all format actually fosters a better free exchange of ideas. Is DALPA afraid of that? I heard the argument that most pilots didn't use the forum because of all the crap. Again, give the majority of pilots a little credit. Smart pilots know how to ignore crap. And, they didn't get to this point in their career without developing some thick skin.
We were told that more pilots would visit the new forum. My money thinks less will.
Thanks for listening to my rant.
I'm not a DPA supporter, but the thing I hate most about ALPA is the way they waste our money trying to "educate" us. I was offended by the pilots tasked to hang out in the crew lounges to sell C2012. Let the damn thing stand on it's own merits! I wasn't satisfied with 4833 (and the reduction in profit sharing to get there), but I voted for it because I didn't think sending the group who gave it to us was going to go back and make any meaningful gains. I certainly didn't need a fellow pilot on flight pay loss in the lounge to tell me what a great deal it was.
Now I hear that Dalpa has a plan to send pilots on flight pay loss around the world to layover bars to defend ALPA. YHGTBSM! I don't know about the rest of ya'll, but this is not how I want my dues money spent. Give the pilots a little credit for having a brain.
I still support ALPA as my bargaining agent, but I am getting close to changing my mind. Are you listening DALPA! If you are the clear best choice for the pilots at DAL, then start acting like it. Give the pilots you are trying to win over a little credit. We didn't end up here because we are stupid.
Now back to the forum. I totally agree that most of the crap that was on Hangar Talk was just that...crap. The problem is that every once in a while there is some really useful information there. I think the open free-for-all format actually fosters a better free exchange of ideas. Is DALPA afraid of that? I heard the argument that most pilots didn't use the forum because of all the crap. Again, give the majority of pilots a little credit. Smart pilots know how to ignore crap. And, they didn't get to this point in their career without developing some thick skin.
We were told that more pilots would visit the new forum. My money thinks less will.
Thanks for listening to my rant.
10-23-2013, 05:07 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
I never thought I'd think of the days when your old boss was in power as the good old days....
10-23-2013, 05:22 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Position: C560XL/XLS/XLS+
Posts: 1,278
10-23-2013, 05:53 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
Question for tsquare or anyone else proposing LGBP. I'm not educated on the pros and cOns and would like more info. Has anyone posted a decent wrap up on it or doe we have a chunk of pages here where it was well discussed? My gut leans toward LGBP but I suspect there would be loopholes opened for company I don't foresee.
Any links to well thought coverage appreciated.
Any links to well thought coverage appreciated.
Here's a really short list of the Pro/Con's:
Pro: You'll never have to commute to a widebody job to get top pay, you'll be paid based on your years of service, no matter what airplane you fly. We only have 18 777's and 16 747's, and you have to commute to ATL or DTW to fly them if you want top pay, and most guys will never hold it. Longevity Based Pay would eliminate that. And as Delta replaces 757's with 737's, you wouldn't take a pay cut to go to the smaller airplane.
Con: The company has been asking for this for years, because it will reduce body count, as there would be very few guys in training, bidding to bigger airplanes to get more money. The smaller bases, like LAX, SEA and SLC will get super senior, and the bottom guys will be stuck in NYC forever.
The short answer is, how it would affect -you- depends where -you- sit on the seniority list, and what base you want to fly out of. As always, sheite rolls downhill, so the further up the list you are, the less you'd get splattered with.
The company could probably operate with 15% less pilots tomorrow if we had it. BTW, Lufthanza has it, and their most junior guys fly their 747's around the world on 14 day trips, while their senior guys fly the 737's on daytime out and backs, and sleep at home every night.
And then there's always the rule of unintended consequences.
Last edited by Timbo; 10-23-2013 at 06:10 AM.
10-23-2013, 05:58 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Yes. And your claim that it's self evident is a way to weasel out of providing proof. You claim it's obvious. Based on what? Your personal experience? What you read on this forum? A hunch?
10-23-2013, 06:16 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
10-23-2013, 06:16 AM
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
This is an actual .gov flyer, not a joke.
10-23-2013, 08:06 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,233
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