Originally Posted by scambo1

Frankly I haven't entirely wrapped my head around the math to prove or disprove that. It is confusing to have various scenarios of leg lengths and pilots. It's simple to say block hours are the magic pill, but block hours are different from slots. So it's complex to say whether that was a win lose or draw. Fleets have to grow for it to be certain, not one grows and one shrinks. Because there is aircraft "dead" time in the intl flights due to fleet sequencing and slots. That is why aircraft matter.

But that's not all, this is really about codeshare. The fact of "15" pax per day is not what the company was protecting...or at least I can't imagine it was. That number will definitely grow.

As to the "pilot protection" question, by not counting slots and now protecting block hours to a region, we've traded a problem that did exist for a problem that didnt with no quid.

My apologies if I came off harsh earlier.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

Not so much in that post, but in others previous... he's being pretty condescending, but he's not at the level that alfa has been known to achieve.

I think a lot guys are guilty of that!! (Not me of course!)

johnso's posts insinuate that this LOA will prevent any job losses and promote growth. That is not the case. This LOA still allows a loss of 15% of our pac flying jobs and to say that it does not is being disingenuous.

Okay, how about this. (We all know it's not going to happen anytime soon but for the sake of argument) Under the old language, how many jobs could be lost if the company said "We are going to stop the code sharing out of NRT." Potentially the company could draw it down to zero and we have no recourse. As I said before, it's not going to happen anytime soon but I do think there is potential for a significant draw down if HND opens up and we lose a significant amount of business traffic. Now, with the 85%, do we not have downside protection? (I realize this is not just for NRT, but for all the Pacific.)

I have not received the 10 page notepad, so I'm intrigued to see the upsides to it that my rep stated he couldn't vote no on it because of.

Originally Posted by buzzpat

Well said, New, well said. I agree completely!

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

I respect you too... you were very much talking down to those you responded to, though.

I've definitely lost my temper in the past, particularly with slow, PG, and alfa... trying to count to 10 before posting these days.

Speaking of counting to 10, I'm still counting and trying not to lose it over this not being MEMRAT. Unfreakingbelievable. I was talking to my dad tonight about the LOA coming out (for those of you that don't know, he's retired NW), and he asked me when the vote is going to be. Couldn't believe something this major wasn't brought to memrat either. But, that's where we are..

Anyways, I still haven't gotten the LOA notepad in my mailbox. Your description of the protections involved in this single post to me is head and shoulders above what you've stated prior to this tonight. I can get on board with those snippets.

I would phrase it as "protects more bodies than previous agreements," which is logically and factually correct. Not just guarantees more bodies which can be construed as implying growth.

Originally Posted by johnso29

I'm sorry for talking down to others. It's gets us nowhere. Unfortunately, if someone swings I know I have been guilty of swinging back. I know I'm guilty of letting emotion cloud my statements. I can respect heathy debate.

I simply ask that we review the facts first. If you need the info, message me on FB and I'll gladly forward it to you.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

It's all good... I wouldn't have said anything, but you were on quite the streak. I'd prefer to be called out as well if I got going like that, too. Good debate, rumors, and the ever so rare underboob is why I keep coming back.

Speaking of, it was really amusing logging on this afternoon during my sit (while "virtual spooning" with DogWhisperer) and seeing a rather knockdown/dragout political debate earlier that was wayyyy outside of the TOS solve itself. Kudos to the participants (particularly newK and buzzpat) for the very mature wind down of that! Why do we even need moderators around here? haha.

Looks like I got the notepad around 1800, but just showed up in my inbox. Weird. I'll dig into it, digest it, and see what comes out the other end.

Originally Posted by johnso29

I'm tired of moderating anyway. You down for a strike?

Regardless, message your opinion about this LOA. Mmmmkay?

Originally Posted by buzzpat

My major objection is the way this particular bill was hammered through in a matter of 48 hours or so. If its such a good idea, why did the current administration, the Senate and Congress implement carve outs that exclude them and their staffs from being required to comply with the law?

Originally Posted by buzzpat

Hey New, I agree that health care reform has been kicked around for quite awhile. My former boss's wife tried to push something similar through. As I said, I don't know anyone who doesn't think we shouldn't reform our health care system.



Finally, the reason why Delta pilots will pay more less coverage is because you, I, and all of us will now be paying for the 30 million or so Americans who have, heretofore, been "uncovered." My TRICARE Prime premiums have gone up and the willingness for our family physicians to accept our insurance is rapidly depleting. This month, I took my 11-year old son to the ER. The local hospital billed TRICARE $789. Just got a bill from the hospital charging me $770 of that. I'll, of course, dispute it but that's the future as I see it.

When Americans, and Delta pilots, start to realize the impact to their wallet, sentiment for the "fairness" of Obamacare will vanish.