Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
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Frankly I haven't entirely wrapped my head around the math to prove or disprove that. It is confusing to have various scenarios of leg lengths and pilots. It's simple to say block hours are the magic pill, but block hours are different from slots. So it's complex to say whether that was a win lose or draw. Fleets have to grow for it to be certain, not one grows and one shrinks. Because there is aircraft "dead" time in the intl flights due to fleet sequencing and slots. That is why aircraft matter.
But that's not all, this is really about codeshare. The fact of "15" pax per day is not what the company was protecting...or at least I can't imagine it was. That number will definitely grow.
As to the "pilot protection" question, by not counting slots and now protecting block hours to a region, we've traded a problem that did exist for a problem that didnt with no quid.
My apologies if I came off harsh earlier.
But that's not all, this is really about codeshare. The fact of "15" pax per day is not what the company was protecting...or at least I can't imagine it was. That number will definitely grow.
As to the "pilot protection" question, by not counting slots and now protecting block hours to a region, we've traded a problem that did exist for a problem that didnt with no quid.
My apologies if I came off harsh earlier.
I'm fine with you disagreeing with me. I may make it difficult to believe otherwise, but I encourage debate. I prefer to hear opposing views. I need to hear my "devils advocate" if you will.
I agree codeshare plays a factor. And to admit that thinking DAL management doesn't want to codeshare would be foolish IMO. One only need look to UAL/ANA or AMR/JAL and the respective Japanese carriers access to HND to prove they do. The Japanese govt and their current course of action shows US Airlines that they must expand beyond Japan. Asia is more then just NRT. And big gains were made by expanding protection outside of NRT.
Scambo,
We've disagreed in the past, & probably will again. But please don't think I don't value/respect your experience.
Also, you need to keep posting because my 4 yr daughter constantly sees your avatar and says "Hey! It's Perry!" So you can't stop showing up and disappoint her.
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Last edited by johnso29; 09-25-2013 at 10:05 PM.
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Not so much in that post, but in others previous... he's being pretty condescending, but he's not at the level that alfa has been known to achieve.
I think a lot guys are guilty of that!! (Not me of course!
)
johnso's posts insinuate that this LOA will prevent any job losses and promote growth. That is not the case. This LOA still allows a loss of 15% of our pac flying jobs and to say that it does not is being disingenuous.
Okay, how about this. (We all know it's not going to happen anytime soon but for the sake of argument) Under the old language, how many jobs could be lost if the company said "We are going to stop the code sharing out of NRT." Potentially the company could draw it down to zero and we have no recourse. As I said before, it's not going to happen anytime soon but I do think there is potential for a significant draw down if HND opens up and we lose a significant amount of business traffic. Now, with the 85%, do we not have downside protection? (I realize this is not just for NRT, but for all the Pacific.)
I have not received the 10 page notepad, so I'm intrigued to see the upsides to it that my rep stated he couldn't vote no on it because of.
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I think a lot guys are guilty of that!! (Not me of course!
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johnso's posts insinuate that this LOA will prevent any job losses and promote growth. That is not the case. This LOA still allows a loss of 15% of our pac flying jobs and to say that it does not is being disingenuous.
Okay, how about this. (We all know it's not going to happen anytime soon but for the sake of argument) Under the old language, how many jobs could be lost if the company said "We are going to stop the code sharing out of NRT." Potentially the company could draw it down to zero and we have no recourse. As I said before, it's not going to happen anytime soon but I do think there is potential for a significant draw down if HND opens up and we lose a significant amount of business traffic. Now, with the 85%, do we not have downside protection? (I realize this is not just for NRT, but for all the Pacific.)
I have not received the 10 page notepad, so I'm intrigued to see the upsides to it that my rep stated he couldn't vote no on it because of.
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I respect you too... you were very much talking down to those you responded to, though.
I've definitely lost my temper in the past, particularly with slow, PG, and alfa... trying to count to 10 before posting these days.
Speaking of counting to 10, I'm still counting and trying not to lose it over this not being MEMRAT. Unfreakingbelievable. I was talking to my dad tonight about the LOA coming out (for those of you that don't know, he's retired NW), and he asked me when the vote is going to be. Couldn't believe something this major wasn't brought to memrat either. But, that's where we are..
Anyways, I still haven't gotten the LOA notepad in my mailbox. Your description of the protections involved in this single post to me is head and shoulders above what you've stated prior to this tonight. I can get on board with those snippets.
I would phrase it as "protects more bodies than previous agreements," which is logically and factually correct. Not just guarantees more bodies which can be construed as implying growth.
I've definitely lost my temper in the past, particularly with slow, PG, and alfa... trying to count to 10 before posting these days.
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Speaking of counting to 10, I'm still counting and trying not to lose it over this not being MEMRAT. Unfreakingbelievable. I was talking to my dad tonight about the LOA coming out (for those of you that don't know, he's retired NW), and he asked me when the vote is going to be. Couldn't believe something this major wasn't brought to memrat either. But, that's where we are..
Anyways, I still haven't gotten the LOA notepad in my mailbox. Your description of the protections involved in this single post to me is head and shoulders above what you've stated prior to this tonight. I can get on board with those snippets.
I would phrase it as "protects more bodies than previous agreements," which is logically and factually correct. Not just guarantees more bodies which can be construed as implying growth.
I simply ask that we review the facts first. If you need the info, message me on FB and I'll gladly forward it to you.
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I'm sorry for talking down to others. It's gets us nowhere. Unfortunately, if someone swings I know I have been guilty of swinging back. I know I'm guilty of letting emotion cloud my statements. I can respect heathy debate.
I simply ask that we review the facts first. If you need the info, message me on FB and I'll gladly forward it to you.
I simply ask that we review the facts first. If you need the info, message me on FB and I'll gladly forward it to you.
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Speaking of, it was really amusing logging on this afternoon during my sit (while "virtual spooning" with DogWhisperer) and seeing a rather knockdown/dragout political debate earlier that was wayyyy outside of the TOS solve itself. Kudos to the participants (particularly newK and buzzpat) for the very mature wind down of that! Why do we even need moderators around here? haha.
Looks like I got the notepad around 1800, but just showed up in my inbox. Weird. I'll dig into it, digest it, and see what comes out the other end.
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It's all good... I wouldn't have said anything, but you were on quite the streak. I'd prefer to be called out as well if I got going like that, too. Good debate, rumors, and the ever so rare underboob is why I keep coming back.
Speaking of, it was really amusing logging on this afternoon during my sit (while "virtual spooning" with DogWhisperer) and seeing a rather knockdown/dragout political debate earlier that was wayyyy outside of the TOS solve itself. Kudos to the participants (particularly newK and buzzpat) for the very mature wind down of that! Why do we even need moderators around here? haha.
Looks like I got the notepad around 1800, but just showed up in my inbox. Weird. I'll dig into it, digest it, and see what comes out the other end.![Cool](https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/cool.gif)
Speaking of, it was really amusing logging on this afternoon during my sit (while "virtual spooning" with DogWhisperer) and seeing a rather knockdown/dragout political debate earlier that was wayyyy outside of the TOS solve itself. Kudos to the participants (particularly newK and buzzpat) for the very mature wind down of that! Why do we even need moderators around here? haha.
Looks like I got the notepad around 1800, but just showed up in my inbox. Weird. I'll dig into it, digest it, and see what comes out the other end.
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I'm tired of moderating anyway. You down for a strike?
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Regardless, message your opinion about this LOA. Mmmmkay?
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I'll let you know! I just skimmed over it the first time but processing power is winding down quickly.
I keep hearing "memrat memrat memrat memrat" going over and over in my head...
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My major objection is the way this particular bill was hammered through in a matter of 48 hours or so. If its such a good idea, why did the current administration, the Senate and Congress implement carve outs that exclude them and their staffs from being required to comply with the law?
From what I'm reading, it looks like Congress and their staff members have to participate in Obamacare even more than you and I do. Not only do they have to comply with the law, unlike any other employees who have insurance provided by an employer with 100 or more workers, it seems like they are required to participate in the health care exchanges.
I think the exemptions come about because, as members of a workforce that contains more than 100 employees, they were never supposed to be required (or, maybe even allowed) to participate in those exchanges.
To me, it looks like the big fuss is about them getting subsidies to pay for their insurance, because without them, it would be a pay cut.
Here's links to the two articles I read:
Is Congress Really Attempting A Last Minute End Run To Exempt Itself From Obamacare? - Forbes
Fact Check: Congress, staff are exempt from Obamacare ? CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs
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Since newK brought it back (like the DC-9)... remember guys, politics is outside of the TOS officially. Keep it classy and civil.
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Hey New, I agree that health care reform has been kicked around for quite awhile. My former boss's wife tried to push something similar through. As I said, I don't know anyone who doesn't think we shouldn't reform our health care system.
Finally, the reason why Delta pilots will pay more less coverage is because you, I, and all of us will now be paying for the 30 million or so Americans who have, heretofore, been "uncovered." My TRICARE Prime premiums have gone up and the willingness for our family physicians to accept our insurance is rapidly depleting. This month, I took my 11-year old son to the ER. The local hospital billed TRICARE $789. Just got a bill from the hospital charging me $770 of that. I'll, of course, dispute it but that's the future as I see it.
When Americans, and Delta pilots, start to realize the impact to their wallet, sentiment for the "fairness" of Obamacare will vanish.
Finally, the reason why Delta pilots will pay more less coverage is because you, I, and all of us will now be paying for the 30 million or so Americans who have, heretofore, been "uncovered." My TRICARE Prime premiums have gone up and the willingness for our family physicians to accept our insurance is rapidly depleting. This month, I took my 11-year old son to the ER. The local hospital billed TRICARE $789. Just got a bill from the hospital charging me $770 of that. I'll, of course, dispute it but that's the future as I see it.
When Americans, and Delta pilots, start to realize the impact to their wallet, sentiment for the "fairness" of Obamacare will vanish.
From what I understand, that's what this whole thing has been about for decades. The problem of the free rider. They have been impacting all of our wallets for a while now and even though, with this law, they still aren't paying their fair share, they are now required to put in something. Which, to me, is a whole lot better than them showing up in the emergency room, sicker than they should be, then walking away from their bill, leaving us to pay the entire thing.
Last edited by newKnow; 09-25-2013 at 11:30 PM.
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