Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-24-2013, 05:15 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 406
Then I start thinking of that movement afoot on the Delta property for an alternative union, and how they will spin it as their victory either way. I have never been an I-told-you-so, but suffice to say that there has been ample warning given, and here we are with a problem.
I have no emotional attachment to NRT, but I can certainly empathize with those who do, and I certainly don't need to demean that attachment. Certain people need to realize that their skills are valuable, but that the group will only tolerate so much of their personality. At the same time, if you bring in another bargaining agent, chaos will reign supreme for a time--sort of like bankruptcy--which will simply open the floodgates for the usual suspects to come in and take the reigns again. It has happened, several times. IMO, both of these scenarios are unacceptable.
Back to the topic. If the rumors are true, the company is telling us that possibly 15% of our current block hours are going away. If this is their negotiating end point, I wonder where their starting point was. Even more, they will be possibly be flown by a Japanese company that wants to put foreign pilots in the control seats. I have a basic ethical problem with Delta code sharing on flights that were formerly flown by Delta pilots, who are now flown by expats that are not Delta pilots. Of course, that is just speculation, but not out of the realm of reasonable possibility given press releases and other obtainable information.
What can we lose? All of NRT and the associated code. That's a few jobs, no doubt about it. Since we have protections of those jobs, that would mean a stalemate on hiring once again so that attrition may catch up to the lost flying. I think a more likely scenario is a gradual draw down until an agreement can be reached in another negotiation, like FTDT or the full section 6 coming up. I am also not boned up enough in 5th freedom rights, and how japanese code sharing affects those rights to comment on that side of the ledger, which is why this may be a good deal. Or it may be a camel's nose, which will require several iterations of further chipping away. The devil's in the details, which none of us have. With 10-15 years of draw down, it certainly isn't a big hurry to get this done. People much smarter than I could sharpshoot this thing with a little education. Since that is doubtful you will have to trust in your reps. Hopefully, you have chosen wisely. No matter how large or small the associated LOA, section 1 is a big deal--always.
09-24-2013, 05:28 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Capt
Posts: 2,049
I have a basic ethical problem with Delta code sharing on flights that were formerly flown by Delta pilots, who are now flown by expats that are not Delta pilots. Of course, that is just speculation, but not out of the realm of reasonable possibility given press releases and other obtainable information.
09-24-2013, 05:51 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Interesting chatter, chatter, as always.
09-24-2013, 06:56 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Skymark seems to be our choice, and a cursory search over the internet shows me that Skymark is completely open to expats operating their equipment. Perhaps some out of box thinking that the expats be Delta pilots could be in order, but that might be thinking outside the box a bit too much 
, so Americans who are not Delta pilots will be operating the equipment allowed by us giving up a no codeshare clause and allowing the reduction of the slots currently in our section 1.
, so Americans who are not Delta pilots will be operating the equipment allowed by us giving up a no codeshare clause and allowing the reduction of the slots currently in our section 1.
09-24-2013, 07:02 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
A)
Man has penis amputated after Viagra overdose's week long erection causes gangrene - NY Daily News
B)
C)
D)
Tacky................ CHK
Inappropriate..... ARM
Man has penis amputated after Viagra overdose's week long erection causes gangrene - NY Daily News
B)
C)
D)
Tacky................ CHK
Inappropriate..... ARM
09-24-2013, 07:23 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 7,000
Scambo,
According to the network guy who tagged along with SD for the spring roadshows we needed about 10 more WBs to add about 5 more point to point locations. I believe that these are the 330's just ordered and will mostly be used SEA to points East.
I was in the audience and heard it first hand - so far its all working out as discussed. Hopefully we will see 5 more destinations by the summer of 2015.
This should all be in place just prior to our next big raise. Hey maybe we should try the "Tony Manero" method of negotiating - watch the first 40 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl_vyjME-ug
Scoop
09-24-2013, 07:33 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 758
So I just saw where the HRA premiums and deductibles are going up again and Delta's HRA $$ ($1500) are going away. These health rewards and questionaires are a slippery slope to nowhere good!
This might be the year to switch over to the pilot plan! I think our next contract will have to see some improvements in this area.
This might be the year to switch over to the pilot plan! I think our next contract will have to see some improvements in this area.
09-24-2013, 07:42 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
So let's think it out:
Delta wants to reduce our presence in Japan, specifically at NRT. Haneda is the business plan du jour, but we can't get in there. Meanwhile UAL and AA are partnering with Japanese carriers for access.
Skymark seems to be our choice, and a cursory search over the internet shows me that Skymark is completely open to expats operating their equipment. Perhaps some out of box thinking that the expats be Delta pilots could be in order, but that might be thinking outside the box a bit too much, so Americans who are not Delta pilots will be operating the equipment allowed by us giving up a no codeshare clause and allowing the reduction of the slots currently in our section 1.
In the meantime, it would appear that we are accepting minimum block hours somewhere in the neighborhood of 85% of what we have now--if the rumors are to be believed--for the Pacific operation. Nobody is further from "in the know" than me. I am assuming that this 85% includes China, HNL to PAC RIM, NRT to the beaches--as in the entire Pacific? For this the company gets unlimited code share? Expanded code share? Very slightly expanded code share? IDK, but it's important. I don't spend enough time here to have caught that part of the rumor. Does this include the approximately 328 Chinese airlines, Korean, Vietnam, and any other PAC operation with which we have linked?
We have just remerged as an S&P powerhouse, which I suppose is important. The Delta pilots were a big part of that ability, IMO. That is leverage. The company is NOT going to pull us down to 0 block hours just because they can, so we can toss that out as emotional drivel as well, my friend.(yes I know that wasn't you, but you could have set the record straight there as well)
Then a look at the history of NWA and their love of the code share is in order. I don't think that it is out of line to take a look at the other side of the world in order to see where this thing might be headed is out of line either. All of those posh Euro destinations that you no longer fly to could very well be a precursor to what is going to happen in the PAC RIM a few more steps down the road. While a JV is certainly not a code share, I would say that at the current time, there is no question that we are not on the receiving end of that whole Europe thing. Could that aviation plague be trying to spread to our Pacific operation as well?
What leverage do we have? Delta is a world class, S&P 500 airline, who constructively engages their pilots, who apparently are putting a viable threat to reemerge with another collective bargaining agent if the recent activities of the MEC communication carpet bombing are to be believed. As such, Delta needs a world class PACIFIC operation. I don't believe ending their code share and sticking it to us "just because they can" is viable long term, so I would say there is some leverage there. I don't have enough information to decide if 85% is extracting all of our leverage, but my hunch says it is not, especially when the aircraft going to the destinations formerly served by Delta are now going to be driven by pilots who could have formerly been in the service of Delta Air Lines.
T'woud appear that Delta wants to code share more in the PAC, and needs relief from the paltry share allowed now. That's leverage. T'woud appear that Delta needs larger access to Haneda via this code share. That's leverage. T'woud appear that Delta needs to rid itself of this minimum frequency burden that is soooooo outdated in order to focus capital on the real prize of the moment, China. That's leverage.
I say, since the PAC RIM is expat central of the world, put Delta butts in the code share seats and let them have what they want. Of course, that is just ridiculous. I doubt that we will get to vote on this, and yes it appears that this solidifies the protection of some current jobs--which will likely be there anyway since the S&Ps brand new entrant won't like throwing out the furlough word, or the unknown of a wildcat union on the property--if the recent full court press of communication from the multitude of leadership individuals is any indicator.
Can I assume that any agreement will also include the usual caveat of circumstances over which the company cannot control.......? Fukushima is worrisome, and that is the only reason to give pause to protecting some of the block hours, for me. But if the caveat exists, and I'm sure it is probably in there somewhere, there doesn't appear to be enough meat on this bone.
My opinion
Delta wants to reduce our presence in Japan, specifically at NRT. Haneda is the business plan du jour, but we can't get in there. Meanwhile UAL and AA are partnering with Japanese carriers for access.
Skymark seems to be our choice, and a cursory search over the internet shows me that Skymark is completely open to expats operating their equipment. Perhaps some out of box thinking that the expats be Delta pilots could be in order, but that might be thinking outside the box a bit too much
, so Americans who are not Delta pilots will be operating the equipment allowed by us giving up a no codeshare clause and allowing the reduction of the slots currently in our section 1.In the meantime, it would appear that we are accepting minimum block hours somewhere in the neighborhood of 85% of what we have now--if the rumors are to be believed--for the Pacific operation. Nobody is further from "in the know" than me. I am assuming that this 85% includes China, HNL to PAC RIM, NRT to the beaches--as in the entire Pacific? For this the company gets unlimited code share? Expanded code share? Very slightly expanded code share? IDK, but it's important. I don't spend enough time here to have caught that part of the rumor. Does this include the approximately 328 Chinese airlines, Korean, Vietnam, and any other PAC operation with which we have linked?
We have just remerged as an S&P powerhouse, which I suppose is important. The Delta pilots were a big part of that ability, IMO. That is leverage. The company is NOT going to pull us down to 0 block hours just because they can, so we can toss that out as emotional drivel as well, my friend.(yes I know that wasn't you, but you could have set the record straight there as well)
Then a look at the history of NWA and their love of the code share is in order. I don't think that it is out of line to take a look at the other side of the world in order to see where this thing might be headed is out of line either. All of those posh Euro destinations that you no longer fly to could very well be a precursor to what is going to happen in the PAC RIM a few more steps down the road. While a JV is certainly not a code share, I would say that at the current time, there is no question that we are not on the receiving end of that whole Europe thing. Could that aviation plague be trying to spread to our Pacific operation as well?
What leverage do we have? Delta is a world class, S&P 500 airline, who constructively engages their pilots, who apparently are putting a viable threat to reemerge with another collective bargaining agent if the recent activities of the MEC communication carpet bombing are to be believed. As such, Delta needs a world class PACIFIC operation. I don't believe ending their code share and sticking it to us "just because they can" is viable long term, so I would say there is some leverage there. I don't have enough information to decide if 85% is extracting all of our leverage, but my hunch says it is not, especially when the aircraft going to the destinations formerly served by Delta are now going to be driven by pilots who could have formerly been in the service of Delta Air Lines.
T'woud appear that Delta wants to code share more in the PAC, and needs relief from the paltry share allowed now. That's leverage. T'woud appear that Delta needs larger access to Haneda via this code share. That's leverage. T'woud appear that Delta needs to rid itself of this minimum frequency burden that is soooooo outdated in order to focus capital on the real prize of the moment, China. That's leverage.
I say, since the PAC RIM is expat central of the world, put Delta butts in the code share seats and let them have what they want. Of course, that is just ridiculous
. I doubt that we will get to vote on this, and yes it appears that this solidifies the protection of some current jobs--which will likely be there anyway since the S&Ps brand new entrant won't like throwing out the furlough word, or the unknown of a wildcat union on the property--if the recent full court press of communication from the multitude of leadership individuals is any indicator.Can I assume that any agreement will also include the usual caveat of circumstances over which the company cannot control.......? Fukushima is worrisome, and that is the only reason to give pause to protecting some of the block hours, for me. But if the caveat exists, and I'm sure it is probably in there somewhere, there doesn't appear to be enough meat on this bone.
My opinion
09-24-2013, 07:44 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
So I just saw where the HRA premiums and deductibles are going up again and Delta's HRA $$ ($1500) are going away. These health rewards and questionaires are a slippery slope to nowhere good!
This might be the year to switch over to the pilot plan! I think our next contract will have to see some improvements in this area.
This might be the year to switch over to the pilot plan! I think our next contract will have to see some improvements in this area.
09-24-2013, 08:04 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Scambo,
According to the network guy who tagged along with SD for the spring roadshows we needed about 10 more WBs to add about 5 more point to point locations. I believe that these are the 330's just ordered and will mostly be used SEA to points East.
I was in the audience and heard it first hand - so far its all working out as discussed. Hopefully we will see 5 more destinations by the summer of 2015.
This should all be in place just prior to our next big raise. Hey maybe we should try the "Tony Manero" method of negotiating - watch the first 40 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl_vyjME-ug
Scoop
According to the network guy who tagged along with SD for the spring roadshows we needed about 10 more WBs to add about 5 more point to point locations. I believe that these are the 330's just ordered and will mostly be used SEA to points East.
I was in the audience and heard it first hand - so far its all working out as discussed. Hopefully we will see 5 more destinations by the summer of 2015.
This should all be in place just prior to our next big raise. Hey maybe we should try the "Tony Manero" method of negotiating - watch the first 40 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl_vyjME-ug
Scoop
My main point is any way we serve Beijing, shanghai and Hong Kong is not expansion...we are already there. Expansion includes frequencies and destinations. That is what I'm not seeing. The 777 pulled out of HKG, that was picked up by NRT and SEA. Now the 777 is used intra Asia, not its most efficient use which is long haul point to point.
The SEA flying is great, but for the time being we have the equivalent of 2 current 777s, at least, doing a 757-300 job, not to mention the 777s filling in AMS for the 330 seat mods. If there is overflight expansion, you've got 1 cities worth (at least) of point to point capacity available right now. Until I see it, I don't believe it.
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