Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-23-2013, 06:48 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
OK, I see what you mean. That might be different. You're talking about an act that wasn't really leaked all that much... to the people voting on it.
09-23-2013, 08:55 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
What leverage do we have? We currently have protective language in our Section 1 that management wants out. Why do they want that language out tsquare? Are they concerned that our job protective language isn't strong enough?
Is it your contention that if management wants something, we must give it because you just can't see what leverage we have to fight it?
Wow.
Carl
Is it your contention that if management wants something, we must give it because you just can't see what leverage we have to fight it?
Wow.
Carl
You are stellar at lineal thinking Carl. It is when you have more than one piece on the chessboard where you seize.
Wow indeed.
09-23-2013, 08:56 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Translation: If Delta wasn't the one that had the ancient agreement, then that agreement is worthless anyway.
It's a business decision based on whether Delta can get that protective language removed from our Section 1. If they can scare us (again) into removing the language, then one business decision will be made. If not, then another business decision will be made.
Carl
It's a business decision based on whether Delta can get that protective language removed from our Section 1. If they can scare us (again) into removing the language, then one business decision will be made. If not, then another business decision will be made.
Carl
09-23-2013, 09:07 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Well I hope this is not a sign of things to come. Today Delta and Virgin Atlantic received their approval to begin the JV. The result 7 daily flights from NYC-LHG... of those 7 flights, Delta gets 3 (its sad that every time I see a code share or JV, I just assume we will be on the short end)
Adding salt into the wound, the Vikings charter to London for Sunday's game is not on the official airline of the Vikings, rather it's on our new subsidiary Virgin Atlantic. The hits just keep coming!
#not holding out hope we improve our pacific language
Adding salt into the wound, the Vikings charter to London for Sunday's game is not on the official airline of the Vikings, rather it's on our new subsidiary Virgin Atlantic. The hits just keep coming!
#not holding out hope we improve our pacific language
Just dot connecting. It ain't rocket surgery either.
09-23-2013, 09:10 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
And those slots are $50 million? or so apiece... if you can even get them. Ain't gonna be a lot of them being bought going forward.....
09-24-2013, 02:05 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 406
OK... so we force them to stand that codeshare down.. then what? We lose connecting passengers which ultimately means that we could possibly downguage equipment into NRT. Yup... held the line and all that feel good stuff, but did you really use that leverage? Methinks not.
You are stellar at lineal thinking Carl. It is when you have more than one piece on the chessboard where you seize.
Wow indeed.
You are stellar at lineal thinking Carl. It is when you have more than one piece on the chessboard where you seize.
Wow indeed.
So let's think it out:
Delta wants to reduce our presence in Japan, specifically at NRT. Haneda is the business plan du jour, but we can't get in there. Meanwhile UAL and AA are partnering with Japanese carriers for access.
Skymark seems to be our choice, and a cursory search over the internet shows me that Skymark is completely open to expats operating their equipment. Perhaps some out of box thinking that the expats be Delta pilots could be in order, but that might be thinking outside the box a bit too much
, so Americans who are not Delta pilots will be operating the equipment allowed by us giving up a no codeshare clause and allowing the reduction of the slots currently in our section 1.In the meantime, it would appear that we are accepting minimum block hours somewhere in the neighborhood of 85% of what we have now--if the rumors are to be believed--for the Pacific operation. Nobody is further from "in the know" than me. I am assuming that this 85% includes China, HNL to PAC RIM, NRT to the beaches--as in the entire Pacific? For this the company gets unlimited code share? Expanded code share? Very slightly expanded code share? IDK, but it's important. I don't spend enough time here to have caught that part of the rumor. Does this include the approximately 328 Chinese airlines, Korean, Vietnam, and any other PAC operation with which we have linked?
We have just remerged as an S&P powerhouse, which I suppose is important. The Delta pilots were a big part of that ability, IMO. That is leverage. The company is NOT going to pull us down to 0 block hours just because they can, so we can toss that out as emotional drivel as well, my friend.(yes I know that wasn't you, but you could have set the record straight there as well)
Then a look at the history of NWA and their love of the code share is in order. I don't think that it is out of line to take a look at the other side of the world in order to see where this thing might be headed is out of line either. All of those posh Euro destinations that you no longer fly to could very well be a precursor to what is going to happen in the PAC RIM a few more steps down the road. While a JV is certainly not a code share, I would say that at the current time, there is no question that we are not on the receiving end of that whole Europe thing. Could that aviation plague be trying to spread to our Pacific operation as well?
What leverage do we have? Delta is a world class, S&P 500 airline, who constructively engages their pilots, who apparently are putting a viable threat to reemerge with another collective bargaining agent if the recent activities of the MEC communication carpet bombing are to be believed. As such, Delta needs a world class PACIFIC operation. I don't believe ending their code share and sticking it to us "just because they can" is viable long term, so I would say there is some leverage there. I don't have enough information to decide if 85% is extracting all of our leverage, but my hunch says it is not, especially when the aircraft going to the destinations formerly served by Delta are now going to be driven by pilots who could have formerly been in the service of Delta Air Lines.
T'woud appear that Delta wants to code share more in the PAC, and needs relief from the paltry share allowed now. That's leverage. T'woud appear that Delta needs larger access to Haneda via this code share. That's leverage. T'woud appear that Delta needs to rid itself of this minimum frequency burden that is soooooo outdated in order to focus capital on the real prize of the moment, China. That's leverage.
I say, since the PAC RIM is expat central of the world, put Delta butts in the code share seats and let them have what they want. Of course, that is just ridiculous
. I doubt that we will get to vote on this, and yes it appears that this solidifies the protection of some current jobs--which will likely be there anyway since the S&Ps brand new entrant won't like throwing out the furlough word, or the unknown of a wildcat union on the property--if the recent full court press of communication from the multitude of leadership individuals is any indicator.Can I assume that any agreement will also include the usual caveat of circumstances over which the company cannot control.......? Fukushima is worrisome, and that is the only reason to give pause to protecting some of the block hours, for me. But if the caveat exists, and I'm sure it is probably in there somewhere, there doesn't appear to be enough meat on this bone.
My opinion
09-24-2013, 04:01 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Capt
Posts: 2,049
So let's think it out:
Delta wants to reduce our presence in Japan, specifically at NRT. Haneda is the business plan du jour, but we can't get in there. Meanwhile UAL and AA are partnering with Japanese carriers for access.
Skymark seems to be our choice, and a cursory search over the internet shows me that Skymark is completely open to expats operating their equipment. Perhaps some out of box thinking that the expats be Delta pilots could be in order, but that might be thinking outside the box a bit too much, so Americans who are not Delta pilots will be operating the equipment allowed by us giving up a no codeshare clause and allowing the reduction of the slots currently in our section 1.
In the meantime, it would appear that we are accepting minimum block hours somewhere in the neighborhood of 85% of what we have now--if the rumors are to be believed--for the Pacific operation. Nobody is further from "in the know" than me. I am assuming that this 85% includes China, HNL to PAC RIM, NRT to the beaches--as in the entire Pacific? For this the company gets unlimited code share? Expanded code share? Very slightly expanded code share? IDK, but it's important. I don't spend enough time here to have caught that part of the rumor. Does this include the approximately 328 Chinese airlines, Korean, Vietnam, and any other PAC operation with which we have linked?
We have just remerged as an S&P powerhouse, which I suppose is important. The Delta pilots were a big part of that ability, IMO. That is leverage. The company is NOT going to pull us down to 0 block hours just because they can, so we can toss that out as emotional drivel as well, my friend.(yes I know that wasn't you, but you could have set the record straight there as well)
Then a look at the history of NWA and their love of the code share is in order. I don't think that it is out of line to take a look at the other side of the world in order to see where this thing might be headed is out of line either. All of those posh Euro destinations that you no longer fly to could very well be a precursor to what is going to happen in the PAC RIM a few more steps down the road. While a JV is certainly not a code share, I would say that at the current time, there is no question that we are not on the receiving end of that whole Europe thing. Could that aviation plague be trying to spread to our Pacific operation as well?
What leverage do we have? Delta is a world class, S&P 500 airline, who constructively engages their pilots, who apparently are putting a viable threat to reemerge with another collective bargaining agent if the recent activities of the MEC communication carpet bombing are to be believed. As such, Delta needs a world class PACIFIC operation. I don't believe ending their code share and sticking it to us "just because they can" is viable long term, so I would say there is some leverage there. I don't have enough information to decide if 85% is extracting all of our leverage, but my hunch says it is not, especially when the aircraft going to the destinations formerly served by Delta are now going to be driven by pilots who could have formerly been in the service of Delta Air Lines.
T'woud appear that Delta wants to code share more in the PAC, and needs relief from the paltry share allowed now. That's leverage. T'woud appear that Delta needs larger access to Haneda via this code share. That's leverage. T'woud appear that Delta needs to rid itself of this minimum frequency burden that is soooooo outdated in order to focus capital on the real prize of the moment, China. That's leverage.
I say, since the PAC RIM is expat central of the world, put Delta butts in the code share seats and let them have what they want. Of course, that is just ridiculous. I doubt that we will get to vote on this, and yes it appears that this solidifies the protection of some current jobs--which will likely be there anyway since the S&Ps brand new entrant won't like throwing out the furlough word, or the unknown of a wildcat union on the property--if the recent full court press of communication from the multitude of leadership individuals is any indicator.
Can I assume that any agreement will also include the usual caveat of circumstances over which the company cannot control.......? Fukushima is worrisome, and that is the only reason to give pause to protecting some of the block hours, for me. But if the caveat exists, and I'm sure it is probably in there somewhere, there doesn't appear to be enough meat on this bone.
My opinion
Delta wants to reduce our presence in Japan, specifically at NRT. Haneda is the business plan du jour, but we can't get in there. Meanwhile UAL and AA are partnering with Japanese carriers for access.
Skymark seems to be our choice, and a cursory search over the internet shows me that Skymark is completely open to expats operating their equipment. Perhaps some out of box thinking that the expats be Delta pilots could be in order, but that might be thinking outside the box a bit too much
, so Americans who are not Delta pilots will be operating the equipment allowed by us giving up a no codeshare clause and allowing the reduction of the slots currently in our section 1.In the meantime, it would appear that we are accepting minimum block hours somewhere in the neighborhood of 85% of what we have now--if the rumors are to be believed--for the Pacific operation. Nobody is further from "in the know" than me. I am assuming that this 85% includes China, HNL to PAC RIM, NRT to the beaches--as in the entire Pacific? For this the company gets unlimited code share? Expanded code share? Very slightly expanded code share? IDK, but it's important. I don't spend enough time here to have caught that part of the rumor. Does this include the approximately 328 Chinese airlines, Korean, Vietnam, and any other PAC operation with which we have linked?
We have just remerged as an S&P powerhouse, which I suppose is important. The Delta pilots were a big part of that ability, IMO. That is leverage. The company is NOT going to pull us down to 0 block hours just because they can, so we can toss that out as emotional drivel as well, my friend.(yes I know that wasn't you, but you could have set the record straight there as well)
Then a look at the history of NWA and their love of the code share is in order. I don't think that it is out of line to take a look at the other side of the world in order to see where this thing might be headed is out of line either. All of those posh Euro destinations that you no longer fly to could very well be a precursor to what is going to happen in the PAC RIM a few more steps down the road. While a JV is certainly not a code share, I would say that at the current time, there is no question that we are not on the receiving end of that whole Europe thing. Could that aviation plague be trying to spread to our Pacific operation as well?
What leverage do we have? Delta is a world class, S&P 500 airline, who constructively engages their pilots, who apparently are putting a viable threat to reemerge with another collective bargaining agent if the recent activities of the MEC communication carpet bombing are to be believed. As such, Delta needs a world class PACIFIC operation. I don't believe ending their code share and sticking it to us "just because they can" is viable long term, so I would say there is some leverage there. I don't have enough information to decide if 85% is extracting all of our leverage, but my hunch says it is not, especially when the aircraft going to the destinations formerly served by Delta are now going to be driven by pilots who could have formerly been in the service of Delta Air Lines.
T'woud appear that Delta wants to code share more in the PAC, and needs relief from the paltry share allowed now. That's leverage. T'woud appear that Delta needs larger access to Haneda via this code share. That's leverage. T'woud appear that Delta needs to rid itself of this minimum frequency burden that is soooooo outdated in order to focus capital on the real prize of the moment, China. That's leverage.
I say, since the PAC RIM is expat central of the world, put Delta butts in the code share seats and let them have what they want. Of course, that is just ridiculous
. I doubt that we will get to vote on this, and yes it appears that this solidifies the protection of some current jobs--which will likely be there anyway since the S&Ps brand new entrant won't like throwing out the furlough word, or the unknown of a wildcat union on the property--if the recent full court press of communication from the multitude of leadership individuals is any indicator.Can I assume that any agreement will also include the usual caveat of circumstances over which the company cannot control.......? Fukushima is worrisome, and that is the only reason to give pause to protecting some of the block hours, for me. But if the caveat exists, and I'm sure it is probably in there somewhere, there doesn't appear to be enough meat on this bone.
My opinion
09-24-2013, 04:07 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Still in one
Posts: 784
And 85% over 0% is what?
Because there are still unknown variables. No one is claiming the Asia landscape is not changing. ALPA is confusing land as soon as possible with land as soon as practical. We are diverting and having someone else take our pax onward. Almost literally.
Thought we had at least ten years ?
Not at all. I simply see us having more time than getting it done yesterday, this is as good as we'll get, 85% gain in Asia flying. Take a few deep breaths. All the company did was say we weren't going to be in compliance. We offered this up and now it's the typical spin on how we saved the world and careers of DAL pilots.
.
Nothing of the sort, it's simply not worthy of a Red Emergency. Thank you for your usual polite rational.
Let me know your talking points for when they start displacing off the wide bodies and it waterfalls throughout the seniority list while we loose all the beach markets and total system block hours remain constant but DAL pilots are flying 15% less.
You try to compare is to some emergency in the aircraft. This has been going on for months now, how does that seem to be an emergency response to you?
If I had an engine fire, I would probably deal with it before several months had expired so what exactly is your point? If we wait another 180 days, how does the situation change?
?
It could easily take more than a decade to transition out of NRT. Apparently, your position is to wait until we are way behind the power curve until you do something about it.
The fact is that NRT is evolving, the whole world knows it, yet your position is to stick your head up your butt and pretend that nothing is changing
Nothing of the sort, it's simply not worthy of a Red Emergency. Thank you for your usual polite rational.
Sorry, this is not a helmet fire. This sounds like you are sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting out loud sounds hoping the world stays the same. Let me know how that works out for you. How well has the worked in the past for you?
09-24-2013, 04:21 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 403
My best analogy: I'm very slowly climbing a rope, and ALPA is slowly burning up the rope that's behind me. Actually the past five years I haven't really been climbing, just hanging there, as the work rule sellouts and scope failures have slowly eliminated most of the rope behind me.
Going forward, I'm counting on the guys on the rope ahead of me get to the top and get off. Hopefully the speed of their exit is faster than the rate of job sales, so that I still have a spot on the rope in ten years. Time will tell...
Going forward, I'm counting on the guys on the rope ahead of me get to the top and get off. Hopefully the speed of their exit is faster than the rate of job sales, so that I still have a spot on the rope in ten years. Time will tell...
09-24-2013, 05:09 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: A330B
Posts: 102
Delta Heath premium & deductables go up again
So I just saw where the HRA premiums and deductibles are going up again and Delta's HRA $$ ($1500) are going away. These health rewards and questionaires are a slippery slope to nowhere good!
This might be the year to switch over to the pilot plan! I think our next contract will have to see some improvements in this area.
This might be the year to switch over to the pilot plan! I think our next contract will have to see some improvements in this area.
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