Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-20-2013, 11:17 AM
Back on TDY
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Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl
09-20-2013, 11:18 AM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
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Posts: 17,473
09-20-2013, 11:23 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,167
The problem with that is defining "addition to saving the jobs." It's like the MEC saying that adding 70 new jumbo RJ's was actually a scope win.
The company needs to be held to the exact language of the contract. Operate those NRT slots...every single one. If not, then hold them to their only other contractual option which is to end the Joint Venture. The contract language we have was written and negotiated for just this reason. The fact we're even discussing modifying it for some difficult to define gain is troubling.
Carl
The company needs to be held to the exact language of the contract. Operate those NRT slots...every single one. If not, then hold them to their only other contractual option which is to end the Joint Venture. The contract language we have was written and negotiated for just this reason. The fact we're even discussing modifying it for some difficult to define gain is troubling.
Carl
Second, the MEC very well may decide that the company's offer is not acceptable and choose to enforce our contract language as is, requiring a pulldown of the codeshare if they can't meet their slot obligation.
What I'd prefer them to do, is what they are doing. Explore every avenue that may produce gains for the Delta pilots. In this case, they chose to engage the company to see if we can extract some wider protections (Pac flying) that protect the jobs that we're all concerned about. We'll see what the company offers up soon enough...
Here's a hypothetical for you:
If the company draws down NRT to zero and they are forced to cancel the codeshare, who loses more? Delta mgmt or the pilot group?
I'm exaggerating the number to make the point that the company is only considering losing 2500 seats of Codeshare revenue as their maximum downside. Our maximum downside is they shut down NRT (you'll again argue that I'm selling fear, where I'm merely explaining a point, so save it.) Why not ATTEMPT to modernize that part of our scope language to provide a block hour floor for Pacific flying? If it contains the block hours currently being flown in NRT plus other Pac flying, why wouldn't you want to go for that?
Or is DPA's position that we will ride a horse til it dies, even if we have the opportunity to pick a better horse mid-stream?
09-20-2013, 11:27 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 777 Sim Instructor
Posts: 745
I usually lose when I disagree with you but I believe if you re-read the original post it said something to the effect of this TA passing with the company making record profits, the poster was Nerd and Shiznits reply was to that post. I agree that losing $ in the 4th quarter has no bearing on much of anything.
09-20-2013, 11:39 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
First of all, it's Codeshare flying that is being discussed, not a JV. Big difference, but I won't sidetrack with that for now.
Second, the MEC very well may decide that the company's offer is not acceptable and choose to enforce our contract language as is, requiring a pulldown of the codeshare if they can't meet their slot obligation.
What I'd prefer them to do, is what they are doing. Explore every avenue that may produce gains for the Delta pilots. In this case, they chose to engage the company to see if we can extract some wider protections (Pac flying) that protect the jobs that we're all concerned about. We'll see what the company offers up soon enough...
Here's a hypothetical for you:
If the company draws down NRT to zero and they are forced to cancel the codeshare, who loses more? Delta mgmt or the pilot group?
I'm exaggerating the number to make the point that the company is only considering losing 2500 seats of Codeshare revenue as their maximum downside. Our maximum downside is they shut down NRT (you'll again argue that I'm selling fear, where I'm merely explaining a point, so save it.) Why not ATTEMPT to modernize that part of our scope language to provide a block hour floor for Pacific flying? If it contains the block hours currently being flown in NRT plus other Pac flying, why wouldn't you want to go for that?
Or is DPA's position that we will ride a horse til it dies, even if we have the opportunity to pick a better horse mid-stream?
Second, the MEC very well may decide that the company's offer is not acceptable and choose to enforce our contract language as is, requiring a pulldown of the codeshare if they can't meet their slot obligation.
What I'd prefer them to do, is what they are doing. Explore every avenue that may produce gains for the Delta pilots. In this case, they chose to engage the company to see if we can extract some wider protections (Pac flying) that protect the jobs that we're all concerned about. We'll see what the company offers up soon enough...
Here's a hypothetical for you:
If the company draws down NRT to zero and they are forced to cancel the codeshare, who loses more? Delta mgmt or the pilot group?
I'm exaggerating the number to make the point that the company is only considering losing 2500 seats of Codeshare revenue as their maximum downside. Our maximum downside is they shut down NRT (you'll again argue that I'm selling fear, where I'm merely explaining a point, so save it.) Why not ATTEMPT to modernize that part of our scope language to provide a block hour floor for Pacific flying? If it contains the block hours currently being flown in NRT plus other Pac flying, why wouldn't you want to go for that?
Or is DPA's position that we will ride a horse til it dies, even if we have the opportunity to pick a better horse mid-stream?
Isn't this precisely the opposite of their position? (Apologies to NewK)
09-20-2013, 12:04 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
First of all, it's Codeshare flying that is being discussed, not a JV. Big difference, but I won't sidetrack with that for now.
Second, the MEC very well may decide that the company's offer is not acceptable and choose to enforce our contract language as is, requiring a pulldown of the codeshare if they can't meet their slot obligation.
What I'd prefer them to do, is what they are doing. Explore every avenue that may produce gains for the Delta pilots. In this case, they chose to engage the company to see if we can extract some wider protections (Pac flying) that protect the jobs that we're all concerned about. We'll see what the company offers up soon enough...
Here's a hypothetical for you:
If the company draws down NRT to zero and they are forced to cancel the codeshare, who loses more? Delta mgmt or the pilot group?
... make the point that the company is only considering losing 2500 seats of Codeshare revenue as their maximum downside. Our maximum downside is they shut down NRT (you'll again argue that I'm selling fear, where I'm merely explaining a point, so save it.)
Second, the MEC very well may decide that the company's offer is not acceptable and choose to enforce our contract language as is, requiring a pulldown of the codeshare if they can't meet their slot obligation.
What I'd prefer them to do, is what they are doing. Explore every avenue that may produce gains for the Delta pilots. In this case, they chose to engage the company to see if we can extract some wider protections (Pac flying) that protect the jobs that we're all concerned about. We'll see what the company offers up soon enough...
Here's a hypothetical for you:
If the company draws down NRT to zero and they are forced to cancel the codeshare, who loses more? Delta mgmt or the pilot group?
... make the point that the company is only considering losing 2500 seats of Codeshare revenue as their maximum downside. Our maximum downside is they shut down NRT (you'll again argue that I'm selling fear, where I'm merely explaining a point, so save it.)
If we look forward we see there may be a very great deal more that 2,500 seats of Codeshare revenue. In fact, this will likely be along the order of Alaska Airlines out of LA and SEA. Do not know if you have had the opportunity to review this article, but I ask everyone to read it before we consider the appropriate solution to renegotiation of our job protection provisions.
Delta Air Lines seeks a Tokyo Haneda base. Skymark a potential partner, to shake up alliances? | CAPA - Centre for Aviation
If we only look backward, we are missing the big picture and missing where our leverage lies.
Look at 1 E 2 C ... got to make it tight to force Delta to fly our equipment.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 09-20-2013 at 12:32 PM.
09-20-2013, 12:13 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
They magically came up with 727 qualifications before the acquisition was finalized... so no, you're right. What does that have to do with the price of rice in Manila? Delta didn't buy any of the 747s if memory serves correctly.
09-20-2013, 12:13 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
09-20-2013, 12:25 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Well since you won't answer questions with anything but name calling and insults, I'll spell it out for you:
First you stated that if NRT needed to go bye bye in order for Delta to make more money, you say "sayonara." I asked that if it was really all about what makes Delta the most money, how about we furlough out of seniority the captains on dying airplanes (like your 767). Then you resorted to the insults. Here's the point:
Furloughing you out of seniority is not a "non-sequitor" or "stupid". It would actually make a ton of sense and make Delta a lot of money. The problem is that it's against our contract. It's the only thing that protects us from just this kind of thing that would make a company more money. The NRT slots are also contractual. Yet you're willing to say "sayonara" to them if it makes the company more money.
It is this level of thinking on your part that makes you so difficult to understand.
Carl
First you stated that if NRT needed to go bye bye in order for Delta to make more money, you say "sayonara." I asked that if it was really all about what makes Delta the most money, how about we furlough out of seniority the captains on dying airplanes (like your 767). Then you resorted to the insults. Here's the point:
Furloughing you out of seniority is not a "non-sequitor" or "stupid". It would actually make a ton of sense and make Delta a lot of money. The problem is that it's against our contract. It's the only thing that protects us from just this kind of thing that would make a company more money. The NRT slots are also contractual. Yet you're willing to say "sayonara" to them if it makes the company more money.
It is this level of thinking on your part that makes you so difficult to understand.
Carl
09-20-2013, 12:30 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
First of all, it's Codeshare flying that is being discussed, not a JV. Big difference, but I won't sidetrack with that for now.
Second, the MEC very well may decide that the company's offer is not acceptable and choose to enforce our contract language as is, requiring a pulldown of the codeshare if they can't meet their slot obligation.
What I'd prefer them to do, is what they are doing. Explore every avenue that may produce gains for the Delta pilots. In this case, they chose to engage the company to see if we can extract some wider protections (Pac flying) that protect the jobs that we're all concerned about. We'll see what the company offers up soon enough...
Here's a hypothetical for you:
If the company draws down NRT to zero and they are forced to cancel the codeshare, who loses more? Delta mgmt or the pilot group?
I'm exaggerating the number to make the point that the company is only considering losing 2500 seats of Codeshare revenue as their maximum downside. Our maximum downside is they shut down NRT (you'll again argue that I'm selling fear, where I'm merely explaining a point, so save it.) Why not ATTEMPT to modernize that part of our scope language to provide a block hour floor for Pacific flying? If it contains the block hours currently being flown in NRT plus other Pac flying, why wouldn't you want to go for that?
Or is DPA's position that we will ride a horse til it dies, even if we have the opportunity to pick a better horse mid-stream?
Second, the MEC very well may decide that the company's offer is not acceptable and choose to enforce our contract language as is, requiring a pulldown of the codeshare if they can't meet their slot obligation.
What I'd prefer them to do, is what they are doing. Explore every avenue that may produce gains for the Delta pilots. In this case, they chose to engage the company to see if we can extract some wider protections (Pac flying) that protect the jobs that we're all concerned about. We'll see what the company offers up soon enough...
Here's a hypothetical for you:
If the company draws down NRT to zero and they are forced to cancel the codeshare, who loses more? Delta mgmt or the pilot group?
I'm exaggerating the number to make the point that the company is only considering losing 2500 seats of Codeshare revenue as their maximum downside. Our maximum downside is they shut down NRT (you'll again argue that I'm selling fear, where I'm merely explaining a point, so save it.) Why not ATTEMPT to modernize that part of our scope language to provide a block hour floor for Pacific flying? If it contains the block hours currently being flown in NRT plus other Pac flying, why wouldn't you want to go for that?
Or is DPA's position that we will ride a horse til it dies, even if we have the opportunity to pick a better horse mid-stream?
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