Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-05-2009, 02:41 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
My forecast has been they were going to carry us fat through Summer 2010 to absorb training and disruption as a result of post SOC bidding. Then in the fall of 2010 they would have a much better idea what their staffing needs are doing forward.
Again, my personal forecast is for notices to go out in late September 2010 which will be effective December 2010. Which, what do you know? That corresponds with two years past Date of Corporate Closure. Hence the reason why I've been wanting to rationalize this Compass flow with an alternative that would allow "Delta pilots" to remain "Delta pilots" instead of being pushed off the property. If a single list is Compass is considered the "lunatic fringe" then I'd like to make the flow down "temporary duty" while remaining a Delta pilot.
Hopefully I'm wrong, "they" know better, and none of these precautions are needed, but, job protections need to be designed to work in a down turn because - that is when they are called on to function. Paranoia is a good thing when designing job protection provisions.
09-05-2009, 02:53 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,105
Bucking Bar, I wholeheartedly agree with you and I've been saying the same thing since the day Delta announced the merger. Once we get past SOC, the schedule will be optimized and we WILL have more fat than we do right now. Unless the economy is coming back next year in a big way, and we are adding destinations that will be served by mainline, we should be expect a furlough.
09-05-2009, 03:12 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Yeah it was a nightmare. On my last rotation, a four day with ins and outs of ATL, we were late for ALL but two flights. Most of it was directly related to the M2 scenario and the ground controllers allowing AirTran to cross 8R at Dixie while holding everyone else up for the B-V loop. 
09-05-2009, 03:26 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,105
Yep, we were late to the gate after landing on time and then had to wait approximately 30 minutes after calling for push because the ramp folks couldn't handle all of the confusion. She couldn't keep track of who was where, who was coming in and who wanted to push out. It was the biggest mess I've seen since the last time I went thru JFK.
09-05-2009, 03:40 PM
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 21
Furloughs
Sort of. Our V.P. of Flight Operations says we are the right size for summer 2010, post SOC. After that, they are "contemplating furloughs," his phrase, not mine.
My forecast has been they were going to carry us fat through Summer 2010 to absorb training and disruption as a result of post SOC bidding. Then in the fall of 2010 they would have a much better idea what their staffing needs are doing forward.
Again, my personal forecast is for notices to go out in late September 2010 which will be effective December 2010. Which, what do you know? That corresponds with two years past Date of Corporate Closure. Hence the reason why I've been wanting to rationalize this Compass flow with an alternative that would allow "Delta pilots" to remain "Delta pilots" instead of being pushed off the property. If a single list is Compass is considered the "lunatic fringe" then I'd like to make the flow down "temporary duty" while remaining a Delta pilot.
Hopefully I'm wrong, "they" know better, and none of these precautions are needed, but, job protections need to be designed to work in a down turn because - that is when they are called on to function. Paranoia is a good thing when designing job protection provisions.
My forecast has been they were going to carry us fat through Summer 2010 to absorb training and disruption as a result of post SOC bidding. Then in the fall of 2010 they would have a much better idea what their staffing needs are doing forward.
Again, my personal forecast is for notices to go out in late September 2010 which will be effective December 2010. Which, what do you know? That corresponds with two years past Date of Corporate Closure. Hence the reason why I've been wanting to rationalize this Compass flow with an alternative that would allow "Delta pilots" to remain "Delta pilots" instead of being pushed off the property. If a single list is Compass is considered the "lunatic fringe" then I'd like to make the flow down "temporary duty" while remaining a Delta pilot.
Hopefully I'm wrong, "they" know better, and none of these precautions are needed, but, job protections need to be designed to work in a down turn because - that is when they are called on to function. Paranoia is a good thing when designing job protection provisions.
09-05-2009, 03:57 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: DAL Pilot
Posts: 1,133
I agree... I think if they do furlough it'll be late 2010.
09-05-2009, 04:09 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Somewhere in between zero and 2,000 with the probability being highest at zero, the next forecast bump at about 400, and declining probability rates to near zero % probability at 2,500. (easier to graph than explain)
But at this stage management will not even make a guess and they have a lot better information than I do. My BEST guess is exactly what they are writing, zero furloughs, but contemplating what to do in the fall of 2010.
There are huge variables in play which are outside anyone's control, like the general economy (flying tends to following unemployment data) and our own competitive environment with what becomes of US Air, United, American, even Japan Air Lines might have an effect on our staffing at some point.
All I'm advocating is that we improve our job protection provisions while hoping we never need them. They must always be designed for "worst case."
But at this stage management will not even make a guess and they have a lot better information than I do. My BEST guess is exactly what they are writing, zero furloughs, but contemplating what to do in the fall of 2010.
There are huge variables in play which are outside anyone's control, like the general economy (flying tends to following unemployment data) and our own competitive environment with what becomes of US Air, United, American, even Japan Air Lines might have an effect on our staffing at some point.
All I'm advocating is that we improve our job protection provisions while hoping we never need them. They must always be designed for "worst case."
09-05-2009, 04:20 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Somewhere in between zero and 2,000 with the probability being highest at zero, the next forecast bump at about 400, and declining probability rates to near zero % probability at 2,500. (easier to graph than explain)
But at this stage management will not even make a guess and they have a lot better information than I do. My BEST guess is exactly what they are writing, zero furloughs, but contemplating what to do in the fall of 2010.
There are huge variables in play which are outside anyone's control, like the general economy (flying tends to following unemployment data) and our own competitive environment with what becomes of US Air, United, American, even Japan Air Lines might have an effect on our staffing at some point.
All I'm advocating is that we improve our job protection provisions while hoping we never need them. They must always be designed for "worst case."
But at this stage management will not even make a guess and they have a lot better information than I do. My BEST guess is exactly what they are writing, zero furloughs, but contemplating what to do in the fall of 2010.
There are huge variables in play which are outside anyone's control, like the general economy (flying tends to following unemployment data) and our own competitive environment with what becomes of US Air, United, American, even Japan Air Lines might have an effect on our staffing at some point.
All I'm advocating is that we improve our job protection provisions while hoping we never need them. They must always be designed for "worst case."
09-05-2009, 04:31 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
Sort of. Our V.P. of Flight Operations says we are the right size for summer 2010, post SOC. After that, they are "contemplating furloughs," his phrase, not mine.
My forecast has been they were going to carry us fat through Summer 2010 to absorb training and disruption as a result of post SOC bidding. Then in the fall of 2010 they would have a much better idea what their staffing needs are doing forward.
Again, my personal forecast is for notices to go out in late September 2010 which will be effective December 2010. Which, what do you know? That corresponds with two years past Date of Corporate Closure. Hence the reason why I've been wanting to rationalize this Compass flow with an alternative that would allow "Delta pilots" to remain "Delta pilots" instead of being pushed off the property. If a single list is Compass is considered the "lunatic fringe" then I'd like to make the flow down "temporary duty" while remaining a Delta pilot.
Hopefully I'm wrong, "they" know better, and none of these precautions are needed, but, job protections need to be designed to work in a down turn because - that is when they are called on to function. Paranoia is a good thing when designing job protection provisions.
My forecast has been they were going to carry us fat through Summer 2010 to absorb training and disruption as a result of post SOC bidding. Then in the fall of 2010 they would have a much better idea what their staffing needs are doing forward.
Again, my personal forecast is for notices to go out in late September 2010 which will be effective December 2010. Which, what do you know? That corresponds with two years past Date of Corporate Closure. Hence the reason why I've been wanting to rationalize this Compass flow with an alternative that would allow "Delta pilots" to remain "Delta pilots" instead of being pushed off the property. If a single list is Compass is considered the "lunatic fringe" then I'd like to make the flow down "temporary duty" while remaining a Delta pilot.
Hopefully I'm wrong, "they" know better, and none of these precautions are needed, but, job protections need to be designed to work in a down turn because - that is when they are called on to function. Paranoia is a good thing when designing job protection provisions.
Bar, When did you hear Steve Dickson say they are contemplating furloughs after 2010? I heard him say the opposite. He said while we can never take furloughs off the table we have no plans to furlough at the present time. A furlough in 10 makes little sense. If you were going to furlough you do it now. The payback is about 22 months on a furlough. If a furlough makes sense in 2010 it means they are planning a major flight reduction after next summer. Why would that be when that should be a recovery phase. You furlough on the downside. Very rarely do you have furloughs going into a planned recovery. Dickson was questioned very carefully about furloughs after the JFK meeting. He said if the block hour plan for next summer remains about what it is that no furloughs will be needed at all. Only a major reduction in the block hour plan will bring on furloughs.
09-05-2009, 04:43 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Sailing; I agree with your logic, but also Bar said that he thought the highest probability for furloughs was zero. I met the system plug and he's a nice guy. Why would anyone want to furlough him? If you are junior, there is an ever present threat for furloughs, it is prudent to hedge you bets.
Also, if we strengthen the flow thru with compass and furlough so that DAL pilots are filling every compass seat, doesn't it then make sense as a next step to staple compass the company to the bottom of DAL?
Scambo
Also, if we strengthen the flow thru with compass and furlough so that DAL pilots are filling every compass seat, doesn't it then make sense as a next step to staple compass the company to the bottom of DAL?
Scambo
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
