Roadkill

Wow. 100% vacancy AE, lots of CAPT positions awarded. No movement out west, much of the "goodness" of this AE was illusory due to not backfilling guys who got the CAPT slots.

But the reality is different, and the hidden truth here is almost always ignored-- positions at the top (capt) don't mean DIDDLY SQUAT for most of the list if the FO positions that fill them are not BACKFILLED. If the high-end FO positions just shrink and shrink, well the "good deals" just don't ripple downwards do they?

All CAPT positions will end up one way or another flowing "through" the 7ER category--no matter who first fills the CAPT spot, with the meat of the senior F/O list at the company in the 7ER the created vacancies WILL flow through that category. If you just shrink that category and never backfill those spots, guess what? ALL CAPT VACANCIES GOODNESS STOPS WITH THE SENIOR F/Os on the 7ER!

One single LAX7ERF/O moved, downward to ATL717B.
One single LAX73NF/O moved by reinstatement to his old 320B spot. That single LAX73NB spot was filled by a NYC7ERB downbidding to it.

No SLC7ERF/O moved at all.
No SLC73NF/O moved at all.
One single SLC320F/O moved to DTW717A, and his spot was filled with reinstatement above, so no one in.

One SEA7ERF/O moved to 717A, but no backfill to his spot.
One SEA330F/O moved to 744B, but no backfill to his spot. SEA shrinks by two more.

Six MSP7ERF/O moved... NONE backfilled. Shrinkage, good deals short-stopped.

Three DTW73NF/O positions moved, one swap with ATL73N, one swap with JFK73N, and one DTW744 guy moving down with existing guy moving to ATL73nB.... so no upwards movement at all there, just some base swaps.

Only Three CVG73NF/O moved (to 88 Capt, finally some up...) and were backfilled by 7ER, 88, and 320 FOs.

Hey, I WANTED to be hopeful about possibly moving upwards a single % point in my career, I really did... but this turned out to be just more of the same hidden shrinkage embedded in a great sounding growth. Yep, some growth but nowhere near what 75 Capt spots inferred. Results dictate that I have to call it like it was for us out west--zero growth, wide-body spot shrinkage.

However, congrats to the guys that got new CAPT spots, I can get behind that for them.

TenYearsGone

Still different. I can tell you that I bid for exactly what is on ICREW/DBMS. The Oct Bid Award was completely opposite. I hope DBMS is true!

TEN

Wilbur Wright

Perfect. Print your schedule and don't look at it again until Oct 31st. (And don't answer your phone if you don't recognize the caller.)

daldude

I agree, until they start backfilling WB FO's and Capt in general there will be very little movement. The west will always be worse. I believe 80 of the 100 capt's in the SLC73 are under age 56. So not much movement there for the next decade. It is what it is.

acl65pilot

You talk to your ATL Reps? Guess not or you would not be typing this.

acl65pilot

Take a screen shot of it. If they change what is in DBMS, you have a case.

Wasatch Phantom

Shiz, Sorry it took so long to respond. (Power got knocked out by a thunderstorm.)

I'm sorry but look at what our pay rates were pre-bankruptcy. We are nowhere close to restoration, and that's not factoring in the deleterious effect of inflation. In light of that, I don't accept your phraseology of "substantial jump".

A few weeks ago there was a news item saying that average corporate wages were going to rise 2.9% next year. Wow. We out-performed by a whole one tenth of one percent! Of course that would be leaving out the productivity concessions and profit sharing that we gave up. Factor those in and...well we lost...again.

Employers expect to raise worker pay by 2.9% next year - Jul. 16, 2013

Pre 9/11 Delta's president Fred Reid used the term "self financing" to describe the purchase of RJ's. I think our "substantial jump" was "self funded" as well.

You use the pay rates at the totally dysfunctional USAirways as an example. Really? That's the standard? When was the last time they had a raise?

I'm sure that's the standard management would like to use, and unfortunately one ALPA uses as well. [Why does ALPA do management's work for them?]

I'd rather use this: UPS pays their 757 captains $262 an hour and we're at $213.

TeddyKGB

Roadkill

LOL... not sure what that means but it's pretty funny.

Carl Spackler

You're our bargaining agent shiznit. Shouldn't you be providing that roadmap of the plan to get more of those dollars? A plan that your members can get behind in a unified manner to show management that one-way constructive engagement is over?

Air Tajikhistan is paying $8.76 plus a pint of goat's milk. So what.

As long as you ensure we keep UPS, SWAPA (who flies smaller aircraft) and our foreign Joint Venture competitors out of the comparison, you're right. If you compare properly, we're way behind UPS, SWA and JV competitors.

It's just so puzzling why our own "union" fights so hard to keep us defined within a peer group of the lowest paid and specifically excludes us from the many operators that pay more. Why would our "union" do this?

You mean just the lowest paid groups within the comparing peer group, right shiznit?

Who knows what "substantial" means and what the negotiating stance was last time shiznit? Nobody talked about it last time except for vague bullet points that could have meant anything to anybody. In the end, our negotiators signed a deal without even discussing it with the reps. The reps were given a "done deal" to either ratify, or embarrass the entire MEC with their disunity if they voted to not ratify. Is this the negotiating stance you mean shiznit?

Carl