Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-11-2013, 04:54 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Honestly, I don't see the hub-bub about electing the MEC chair. The question how do we want to structure that position.
The position is one of FACILITATOR, not one of power, or even one of leadership. That person should merely be the face of the pilot group, and coordinate the efforts that represent the will of the individual representatives. More along the lines of "chief of staff".
Now if you believe that information is power, then the people who wield the real, structural power are the committee chairs. Their committees are the one's who are doing the "work", and the committee chair presents that information to the reps via the MEC administration. While we all want to believe that this information is passed along in it's "pure" form, we all know that individual nuance is given...it cant be helped, as people are people. A "backspin" on the bowling ball can change the whole shot.
We hold elections for the merger committee and the negotiating committee. Kinda important that a complete vetting of EACH individual is performed Some properties also elect their R&I committee, and fNWA elected ALL of their committee chairs, in addition to the entire NC, Merger and R&I.
So sure, you can have the membership elect the MEC chair, but IMHO nothing would change. The change you want see involvement in is the people who not the people who drive the bus, but the one's who tell it where to go.
Nu
The position is one of FACILITATOR, not one of power, or even one of leadership. That person should merely be the face of the pilot group, and coordinate the efforts that represent the will of the individual representatives. More along the lines of "chief of staff".
Now if you believe that information is power, then the people who wield the real, structural power are the committee chairs. Their committees are the one's who are doing the "work", and the committee chair presents that information to the reps via the MEC administration. While we all want to believe that this information is passed along in it's "pure" form, we all know that individual nuance is given...it cant be helped, as people are people. A "backspin" on the bowling ball can change the whole shot.
We hold elections for the merger committee and the negotiating committee. Kinda important that a complete vetting of EACH individual is performed Some properties also elect their R&I committee, and fNWA elected ALL of their committee chairs, in addition to the entire NC, Merger and R&I.
So sure, you can have the membership elect the MEC chair, but IMHO nothing would change. The change you want see involvement in is the people who not the people who drive the bus, but the one's who tell it where to go.
Nu
09-11-2013, 04:55 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,899
FWIW, the people who are unspeakably nosy enough to ask, I tell them I'm a druid.
Nu
Nu
09-11-2013, 05:39 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Position: MD88 A
Posts: 51
I agree that flexing the buckets might work, I'd still like to see SC get actual "credit", that would help fix some inequity also.
As to the second, ACL beat me too it for the most part. Yes, the members are tasked with selecting quality representatives to "represent" the local membership. If you remove the importance of your local reps in making those important decisions then you decrease their usefulness and importance; putting quality people in local office become less of a factor, and therefore less able to influence positive outcomes for their members.
As to the second, ACL beat me too it for the most part. Yes, the members are tasked with selecting quality representatives to "represent" the local membership. If you remove the importance of your local reps in making those important decisions then you decrease their usefulness and importance; putting quality people in local office become less of a factor, and therefore less able to influence positive outcomes for their members.
My feelings.
How about MEC voted in by 50% LEC and 50% Line Pilots. That should curb mob rule and possible cronyism.
Also how about a way for commuters to participate. I was unable to vote for the NYC FO rep because I could not attend a recent meeting (flying a trip). I feel disenfranchised.
Last edited by johnso29; 09-11-2013 at 07:02 PM.
09-11-2013, 05:43 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Yep... definitely on board with credit for shart call. The most critical flaw imo is the separate sc and regular buckets.
I disagree that having membership vote for MEC, committee, and national lessens the importance of the local reps. The local reps are critical in many areas beyond this. While in a utopian environment, the reps would perfectly represent the desires of those who elected them, but that is never the case. It can't be. I think that membership election allows the desires of the membership to be better represented. With checks put in place like ACL suggested, I think it is a very workable solution.
I disagree that having membership vote for MEC, committee, and national lessens the importance of the local reps. The local reps are critical in many areas beyond this. While in a utopian environment, the reps would perfectly represent the desires of those who elected them, but that is never the case. It can't be. I think that membership election allows the desires of the membership to be better represented. With checks put in place like ACL suggested, I think it is a very workable solution.
09-11-2013, 05:44 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Honestly, I don't see the hub-bub about electing the MEC chair. The question how do we want to structure that position.
The position is one of FACILITATOR, not one of power, or even one of leadership. That person should merely be the face of the pilot group, and coordinate the efforts that represent the will of the individual representatives. More along the lines of "chief of staff".
Nu
The position is one of FACILITATOR, not one of power, or even one of leadership. That person should merely be the face of the pilot group, and coordinate the efforts that represent the will of the individual representatives. More along the lines of "chief of staff".
Nu
Both O'Malley and Roberts showed their power as they announced conclusions on expartied bargaining with our management before the MEC ever met to discuss the matter. Moak exercised his muscle as he resolved grievances unilaterally. I'm not sure the exact nature of the C2012 drama, but I'm pretty sure the Master Chairman directed the action.
The Master Chairman is of course a spokesman and facilitator. When things unfold so quickly as to not engender time for Council direction, he's, best I can tell, able to rule by proclamation.
Of course some Master Chairmen have been very astute at timing things so there is no opportunity for Council input. I've learned to be very cautious at the end of Reps terms and over extended holidays. Master Chairman appear well versed in the art of the Fait Accompli.
I'm not one for changing the way we currently elect Master Chairmen. The Reps know best and I trust my Reps to make the right calls. But, from the bleachers, it appears the Reps need to take a more activist role, JMHO.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 09-11-2013 at 05:56 PM.
09-11-2013, 06:10 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: undefined
Posts: 328
Gunship,
We are told you will be able to use it for personal use (and I intend to). The final specs for the device are not out yet, but it runs Windows RT, which is not vanilla Windows 8.1. Common apps like web browsers will work fine. Windows software will not work. Netflix should be good to go.
With Windows User Account Controls your stuff should be discrete (much more so than under iOS) unless someone wants to take a look for some reason. Yeah, they could out you on APC
From a platform spec, the Surface RT2 tablet will be more along the lines of a higher end cell phone. I think the specs will be released on the 23rd of the month. Expect a Tegra 4 chipset driving a HD 1080p screen. It's kind of a yawn, like an Airbus product that way.
I wonder if Delta will support a RT Pro 2. The Haswell chipset & real windows 8.1 would be a much more rounded product. We will end up buying one or two for the household regardless.
My guess is that Delta will have a specially designed app suite that runs under RT. Kinda surprised the vendors did all the work for that, but talking to the non computer guy who has been using it, that was the description he gave.
We are told you will be able to use it for personal use (and I intend to). The final specs for the device are not out yet, but it runs Windows RT, which is not vanilla Windows 8.1. Common apps like web browsers will work fine. Windows software will not work. Netflix should be good to go.
With Windows User Account Controls your stuff should be discrete (much more so than under iOS) unless someone wants to take a look for some reason. Yeah, they could out you on APC
From a platform spec, the Surface RT2 tablet will be more along the lines of a higher end cell phone. I think the specs will be released on the 23rd of the month. Expect a Tegra 4 chipset driving a HD 1080p screen. It's kind of a yawn, like an Airbus product that way.
I wonder if Delta will support a RT Pro 2. The Haswell chipset & real windows 8.1 would be a much more rounded product. We will end up buying one or two for the household regardless.
My guess is that Delta will have a specially designed app suite that runs under RT. Kinda surprised the vendors did all the work for that, but talking to the non computer guy who has been using it, that was the description he gave.
09-11-2013, 06:13 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
After reading some good comments and suggestions on glasses, can i get your input on:
Best dental plan to use at Delta for kids braces
Best ways to maximize the dollar paying the rest (flex saver or health rewards?)
P.S. I have never used health care insurance thru Delta since my Wife's plan had better coverage. Orthodontics is not covered best we can tell?
Best dental plan to use at Delta for kids braces
Best ways to maximize the dollar paying the rest (flex saver or health rewards?)
P.S. I have never used health care insurance thru Delta since my Wife's plan had better coverage. Orthodontics is not covered best we can tell?
As far as health plans go, I've always gone with the Diamond HSA. It seems to work the best for me and mine.
Denny
09-11-2013, 06:39 PM
Doing Nothing
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,316
09-11-2013, 07:20 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Sorry meant to reply to above but selected quote.
My feelings.
How about MEC voted in by 50% LEC and 50% Line Pilots. That should curb mob rule and possible cronyism.
Also how about a way for commuters to participate. I was unable to vote for the NYC FO rep because I could not attend a recent meeting (flying a trip). I feel disenfranchised.
My feelings.
How about MEC voted in by 50% LEC and 50% Line Pilots. That should curb mob rule and possible cronyism.
Also how about a way for commuters to participate. I was unable to vote for the NYC FO rep because I could not attend a recent meeting (flying a trip). I feel disenfranchised.
The whole debate on the direct election of Master Chairman is one that I have no issue formally considering. The 50-50 spit is another way of saying the MEC nominates a field and the pilots elect. if you go 50-50 like you suggest there may still be many that say the MEC rolled it. The only way you could do that is for a double vote; the pilots vote, and then the Reps take their roll call votes and vote the pilots they represent. It may not change the results, and they could literally vote the way their pilots did, unless the pilot vote is not disclosed until the MEC vote.
Either way, bring a resolution and if it passes the LEC the MEC will consider it.
On the short in elections like what happened in 66 this last spring, a few LEC's passed resolutions on this concern, it was passed with slight amendments to have the Exec Council look at it, they referred to the specialized council on it, and there may be some news on it shortly. Ultimately, it is a major change and the BOD; your Reps will ultimately vote on it.
The process is working.
09-11-2013, 07:31 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
The biggest issues with electing all of the Committee Chairs is two fold from what I can tell.
1) These are by default your Subject Matter Experts (SME's) on each and every field. There is a lot of power there, but it is important to make sure that those that are in these positions are qualified. Very important. Areas like R and I, Scheduling, Contract Admin, and Safety, need pilots that are experts in these areas to run these departments.
2) It adds more politicizing of the process, and any Rep will tell you, elections are political and it encompasses the entire MEC meeting when they occur. Go to the Feb MEC meeting next year and watch the discussions after hours. You will see very quickly.
Another compromise position can be one of two options:
1) Have the MEC Chair appoint, (If they are elected by pilot vote, the wishes of the pilots are intact) and have each confirmation as a separate resolution. Many say this does nothing, and a appointee can be cut out if needed, but it allows Reps that have an issue with one appointee to just vote down that resolution vis a vis, going through Roberts Rules to amend a resolution or try to vote the whole thing down.
2) Elect a few more committees than we currently do. Pick em, and have good arguments as to why these need to be appointed, but leave a lot of them as is.
3) A hybrid of both 1 and 2.
There are probably more options that reduce the politicalization of the process and allow more pilot input. These are ones I have considered in the past.
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