forgot to bid

special shot out to the guy printing off the entire bid packet in the crewroom. congratulations, this world spins for you, ill just sit here and wait patiently for my schedule to print.

Sink r8

Except it didn't play out that way. Each pilot group played this according to their own beliefs, and for the most part their beliefs match human nature. UAL just agreed to yank their furloughees acquired longevity on furlough. As far as I know, APA didn't do anything special for them. USAPA? The same.

The Delta pilots, as independently represented by our branch of the ALPA, took better care of our own, but that didn't quite extend to avoiding voluntary flying. COBRA was a positive step, as you pointed out. They also fought and won a recall in the case of FMII, and fought FMI, but ultimately gave up on, FMI. At every airline, pilots came back mostly when the airline wanted them back.

We're never going to get anywhere if we don't acknowledge that we drive the behavior. KR was faithfully relating the sentiment of the group: we (collectively) ask for pay, pay, pay, basing ourselves on a very narrow, short-term version of self-interest.

Our problem is that the majority of us believes that payrate increases solve everything. The people like Bar, who understand how to truly close the loop on furloughs and whipsaw, and are focused on bigger issues, are hopelessly outnumbered.

One of the biggest red herrings about ALPA is the presumption that National drives our actions. This feeds the quaint fantasy that somehow, the evil union is preventing our true, majestic, compassionate nature from blossoming into something beautiful, and oh so effective.

In this state of denial, I suppose the e-mail musings of a second-rate messiah is music to one's ears. Sounds very soothing, when you think about it: "...deep-down, I know you're a [deleted] tiger (or a cobra, whatever your preference is), and you're ready to burn this place down. All that's holding you back is those [deleted] ALPA guys, polling you, but failing to understand from your payrate-first attitude, that what you really are asking for is Scope, Scope, Scope. They're polling, but they're not really "bottom-up". We would be. And they're not really telling you what you want to focus on, but we would be willing to lead. So we'd do what you want, and tell you what to want us to do...".

Until we stop hoping someone is going to turn our water into wine, we're never going to acknowledge the issues, and therefore, we have no chance of solving them. Trying to pretend our issue is oppressive representation is a farce, a grotesque injury we commit onto ourselves. This is why we fail to properly supervise, and this how a fraction of the union guys (any union's guys) start sounding like wet nurses or management proxies: we're turning into a bunch of wet-nurses and management proxies. We probably poll like wet-nurses and management proxies, not trade unionists. And for sure, there wouldn't be enough of us to even show up at an election to vote for a trade unionist over a wet nurse.

Sink r8

On that note, I'm going to take a break from this discussion, and check on the essentials. It's been awful quiet in the house...

You guys take care.

TOGA LK

I always print two-sided to save paper. JK...

hitimefurl

• C2K strike vote passed by 94%
• C2K "aka the restoration baseline" passed by only 63%
• LOA 46 passed by 58% - froze pension -
• LOA 51 passed by 61% - Secured note/claim if DB terminated -

• COBRA vote passed by 77% (clap-clap-clap)

The pilots voted. We are the reason we are where we are at. Every pilot had an opportunity to have a say in these MEMRATs. MEMRAT is the tool. There is no reason to believe that a MEMRAT vote at DPA would be any different in outcome, it would just cost more.

Pilots are willing to stand up and bump chests when there's nothing to lose - the strike vote. When it comes to money or saving the jobs the numbers look close from C2K to LOA 51. LOA 46 was closest and it should have been the closest for the pilots as that was a big decision to make with C2K wages and the freezing of the pension but the pilots voted. Interesting for me that the note and claim money made my 2006 pay one of the largest I have ever had and that includes my C2K years.

These divisions in votes and letters also coincide with different chairman and the DFW thing and the pensions. There's a large contingent of LOA46 alumnus running around with green tag fever. Everyone's favorite villain was responsible for ordering the locker clean out when the company asked us to pitch in and start to help clean planes. ALPA does say enough is enough, they just seem to wait a lot longer to pull the trigger than many of us would like. Is it because they are working behind the scenes? Is the the RLA and NMB issue? Who knows. Moak gave the order to clean the lockers and made it very public in the media. Right message at the right time.


We have MEMRAT, we have the power. You can go back and forth all day with the argument should ALPA have even sent us the deal to look at. The fact is that we demanded MEMRAT and we try and skirt the responsibility when it doesn't work out by saying ALPA should never have shown us the deal. That's BS. We are the safety valve now. LOA 46 didn't come to us unanimously and neither did C2K. The outcome of the vote means a majority voted. This won't change with new representation and believing that that will be able to extract something because they are new is as fanciful as anything. Even if the DPA were to win a vote with a 50%+1 they haven't managed to capture the other 50%-1 for various reasons and that means we are still going into a Section 6 divided. This further assumes a large number of pilots don't vote for NO UNION or OTHER. The structural part of DPA is missing a lot. Dues check off is a signed from between you and the company and ALPA. Not sure, ask a USAPA guy about the problems they had getting guys to sign the new forms. Either way this division is a boon to management right now and will be for C2015 regardless of the vote, because we will still be divided either way unless we come together.

Purple Drank

Wait, I'm confused. I've seen many LOAs enacted, for example, right before Christmas, or snuck through several at a time to create more obfuscation (including the most recent to take care of MEC. Does nothing for the line pilot).

I don't remember voting on those.

shiznit

The memberss elect representatives to make many (but not all) decisions on their behalf. You have the power to vote for who you want to nominate and ultately elect to the position. If every pilot voted on every issue there would be no point in having representatives. You have to trust your peers, the pilots who also have a voice to choose those pilots that represent you. Should you not approve of the decisions that your pilot representative makes, you are empowered by the Constitution and By-Laws to recall that representative.

Changing your collective bargaining agent will not fix that.

Columbia

Why isn't there a general election for the ALPA president?

Check Essential

Maybe we can get the word to our reps that we would like to have MEMRAT on the upcomoing LOAs regarding scope in both the Atlantic and Pacific.
We don't vote very often as a pilot group. MEMRAT is very rare. Too rare.

DALPA wants pilot engagement. Here's a chance. Lots of line pilots are concerned about the durability and enforcability of our section 1 and all the modifications we make to it. These scope deals seem pretty important. Certainly worthy of a vote.

What say you DALPA?

Timbo

Sorry to change the subject, but am I the only one watching FSU vs. Pitt?

How about that Freshman QB for FSU?? 17 of 18, 3 TD's and runs one in too...in the first half?!

Is this Winston kid for real, or just lucky?

Second half coming, could be interesting if he can keep it up.