Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-28-2013, 07:39 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
08-28-2013, 07:40 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Leine,
Let me just segue this by saying that I am not a DPA supporter and can't see myself backing the group in the near future. My gripes with ALPA are just that, with ALPA and in no way translates into support for DPA. It's tiresome to hear when a criticism is made against ALPA it is assumed that the person making the critque is throwing their support behind DPA.
You draw a distinction between ALPA National and our MEC, but I consider them one in the same as it seems the direction/influence of ALPA National is echoed through our MEC and trickled down to our LECs. While I realize administratively the MEC and National leadership structures differ, I still find the relationship tightly woven.
The perception (to me at least) is National passes down it's influence to the MECs who in turn pass down the guidance to the LECs who must then get the pilot group on board. I feel that this process is completely backwards and it has evolved into this because their is an assumption that majority of pilots are selfishly out for themselves and incapable of deciding the appropriate direction for this profession.
I have always been impressed with the knowledge, expertise, and feedback that I have gotten from the Reps I have interacted with, but I still can't help to ignore the MEC direction/guidance that the LECs are left to defend and justify. I'd like to see the tone change with ALPA.
Not trying to attack you or anything here, just offering up this junior guy's opinion.
Let me just segue this by saying that I am not a DPA supporter and can't see myself backing the group in the near future. My gripes with ALPA are just that, with ALPA and in no way translates into support for DPA. It's tiresome to hear when a criticism is made against ALPA it is assumed that the person making the critque is throwing their support behind DPA.
You draw a distinction between ALPA National and our MEC, but I consider them one in the same as it seems the direction/influence of ALPA National is echoed through our MEC and trickled down to our LECs. While I realize administratively the MEC and National leadership structures differ, I still find the relationship tightly woven.
The perception (to me at least) is National passes down it's influence to the MECs who in turn pass down the guidance to the LECs who must then get the pilot group on board. I feel that this process is completely backwards and it has evolved into this because their is an assumption that majority of pilots are selfishly out for themselves and incapable of deciding the appropriate direction for this profession.
I have always been impressed with the knowledge, expertise, and feedback that I have gotten from the Reps I have interacted with, but I still can't help to ignore the MEC direction/guidance that the LECs are left to defend and justify. I'd like to see the tone change with ALPA.
Not trying to attack you or anything here, just offering up this junior guy's opinion.
08-28-2013, 07:43 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Take her to see Planes ... relief for you and her.
Tangled is, BTW, my favorite Disney / Pixar collaboration. 140,000 strands of hair and something like 174,000 frames. Someone drew something like 25,200,000,000 strands of hair. They had to develop their own physics engine to make it flow properly. When you understand the tech behind that cartoon, it's pretty jaw dropping.
Tangled is, BTW, my favorite Disney / Pixar collaboration. 140,000 strands of hair and something like 174,000 frames. Someone drew something like 25,200,000,000 strands of hair. They had to develop their own physics engine to make it flow properly. When you understand the tech behind that cartoon, it's pretty jaw dropping.
08-28-2013, 07:55 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
First, they knock the star QB from Texas out of the game in the first quarter. But then almost get beat by a freshman backup. But they won. Thanks to the previously mentioned QB being knocked out of the game.
Second, they play LSU who was in meltdown mode with fights on the bus and what not. And it showed.
Third, they play Notre Dame, no offense ND fans, but you're no Oregon. Who if not for a FG bouncing off the upright in OT would've been a much better opponent then Bama had seen in a NCG. After all, we know hurry up is the one thing Saban hates and they showed a weakness to short QBs (A&M and UGA comes to mind) in a passing game. A high flying Ducks championship game would've been a riot after how some acted during the 2010 national championship...
08-28-2013, 08:06 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Bored? How about eternally grateful.
First, they knock the star QB from Texas out of the game in the first quarter. But then almost get beat by a freshman backup. But they won. Thanks to the previously mentioned QB being knocked out of the game.
Second, they play LSU who was in meltdown mode with fights on the bus and what not. And it showed.
Third, they play Notre Dame, no offense ND fans, but you're no Oregon. Who if not for a FG bouncing off the upright in OT would've been a much better opponent then Bama had seen in a NCG. After all, we know hurry up is the one thing Saban hates and they showed a weakness to short QBs (A&M and UGA comes to mind) in a passing game. A high flying Ducks championship game would've been a riot after how some acted during the 2010 national championship...
First, they knock the star QB from Texas out of the game in the first quarter. But then almost get beat by a freshman backup. But they won. Thanks to the previously mentioned QB being knocked out of the game.
Second, they play LSU who was in meltdown mode with fights on the bus and what not. And it showed.
Third, they play Notre Dame, no offense ND fans, but you're no Oregon. Who if not for a FG bouncing off the upright in OT would've been a much better opponent then Bama had seen in a NCG. After all, we know hurry up is the one thing Saban hates and they showed a weakness to short QBs (A&M and UGA comes to mind) in a passing game. A high flying Ducks championship game would've been a riot after how some acted during the 2010 national championship...
Oh, and they are gonna kill Manziel this year.
08-28-2013, 08:39 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
My apologies. I made the leap when that's not what you were talking about. I've been having the DPA discussion a little too often lately huh? My bad.
While there is a relationship between our MEC (and all MEC's) and National, we do not take direction from them. There was a large shift (although it may have been subtle to the average pilot) when the new administration took office in January. It signaled, IMO, a shift in direction based on the reps displeasure with how C2012 went down.
You'll notice a change in the communication that's coming out since KR took over - and while you probably won't see the contract survey results anytime soon, there is a strong push from the very top of the Delta MEC to be more inclusive and transparent. The PUB program is a perfect example of this. Even in this "downtime" your MEC is going out on the road frequently and has visited every single base, to collect your feedback. I'm confident that capn's experience at the PUB was an outlier, and not the norm. It may have been 1 ALPA guy having a bad day - we're human.
I have actually noticed very little interference from National in the several years I've been doing this stuff. For the most part, we call them when we need something. They exist to support us, and it works that way 99% of the time. Lee Moak does not call down to ATL and tell us how things should be.
Understood. I'm also a junior guy, which is why I'm so invested in where this thing is going. We all want the same thing. It just boils down to (usually) a very small difference in opinion of how to get there.
While there is a relationship between our MEC (and all MEC's) and National, we do not take direction from them. There was a large shift (although it may have been subtle to the average pilot) when the new administration took office in January. It signaled, IMO, a shift in direction based on the reps displeasure with how C2012 went down.
You'll notice a change in the communication that's coming out since KR took over - and while you probably won't see the contract survey results anytime soon, there is a strong push from the very top of the Delta MEC to be more inclusive and transparent. The PUB program is a perfect example of this. Even in this "downtime" your MEC is going out on the road frequently and has visited every single base, to collect your feedback. I'm confident that capn's experience at the PUB was an outlier, and not the norm. It may have been 1 ALPA guy having a bad day - we're human.
I have actually noticed very little interference from National in the several years I've been doing this stuff. For the most part, we call them when we need something. They exist to support us, and it works that way 99% of the time. Lee Moak does not call down to ATL and tell us how things should be.
Understood. I'm also a junior guy, which is why I'm so invested in where this thing is going. We all want the same thing. It just boils down to (usually) a very small difference in opinion of how to get there.
All good info from your post, and to just reiterate my opinion is only based on "my perception" of how things seem to play out. The C2012 vote seemed to place an inordinate amount of pressure from both our union and management. The perception seemed to be that both sides were pushing identical facts, whereas a more transparent pros versus cons comparison would have been more palatable.
You say things have changed and we will see the inference from those changes evident in future communications. Until then we'll all just have to wait and see how some of our significant concerns will play out in the short/long term.
I'd like to see both DPA and ALPA strengthen their hand so as to provide two strong representational options to our group in the event a representational vote ever occurs. DPA by far has a lot more legwork to do as they have publicised some scathing vitriol against ALPA and have provided nothing more than fear mongering.
Last edited by DeadHead; 08-28-2013 at 09:00 AM.
08-28-2013, 09:04 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: B767
Posts: 808
Bored? How about eternally grateful.
First, they knock the star QB from Texas out of the game in the first quarter. But then almost get beat by a freshman backup. But they won. Thanks to the previously mentioned QB being knocked out of the game.
Second, they play LSU who was in meltdown mode with fights on the bus and what not. And it showed.
Third, they play Notre Dame, no offense ND fans, but you're no Oregon. Who if not for a FG bouncing off the upright in OT would've been a much better opponent then Bama had seen in a NCG. After all, we know hurry up is the one thing Saban hates and they showed a weakness to short QBs (A&M and UGA comes to mind) in a passing game. A high flying Ducks championship game would've been a riot after how some acted during the 2010 national championship...
First, they knock the star QB from Texas out of the game in the first quarter. But then almost get beat by a freshman backup. But they won. Thanks to the previously mentioned QB being knocked out of the game.
Second, they play LSU who was in meltdown mode with fights on the bus and what not. And it showed.
Third, they play Notre Dame, no offense ND fans, but you're no Oregon. Who if not for a FG bouncing off the upright in OT would've been a much better opponent then Bama had seen in a NCG. After all, we know hurry up is the one thing Saban hates and they showed a weakness to short QBs (A&M and UGA comes to mind) in a passing game. A high flying Ducks championship game would've been a riot after how some acted during the 2010 national championship...
God Made a Bammer - YouTube
08-28-2013, 09:44 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
God made a Bammer.
God Made a Bammer - YouTube
God Made a Bammer - YouTube
08-28-2013, 10:06 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
08-28-2013, 10:08 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
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