scambo1

Oh really? That's how it works?

acl65pilot

Great idea, but lets look back to when all of this was done. They AF JV was done well before the economic collapse in Europe, and before the financial meltdown here. The common sense guidance was that Europe was relatively stable for us and growth would come to our side on a 2/3rds ratio. It hasn't and we have seen what a contracting environment does when you are to get 2/3rds of the block hrs or half of the EASK's.

Do you think that the company likes that a Reserve pilot can get pay no credit above guarantee and get their off days back when on reserve? Do you think they are happy that we can drop to zero hours in a month? Do you think they are happy that any DAL pilot can leave at any time they choose and they don't have a way to meter us out the door? Do you think they are happy with NO OE recovery for FO's now and they got a 12 month lock for new hires?

It happens on both sides. That is the reality. From the exit of Ch11 protection to very recently, DAL has been working to get to a place of 10% margins, reduced debt and a very stable business plan. We helped them get there. It was selfish motivation on our part. That has been good and bad for us. IMO, we are at a place in time where our company is making great profits, margins are steadily increasing, and they are still ahead of their competitors by a good bit. I would say we as a group have desired to get to this point. It where there is money available for our next round.

IMO it goes farther than that too. On the national level we have been seeing stead progress and opposition to issues that would negate all of this work and result in a very long downward trend that has little to no hope reversing for our US airline industry. Items that we are all aware of are the battle ground so we keep the same set of rules that allowed our corporations to get to this point in time. Fighting the AMR/LCC decision is the next iteration. If that merger fails you have the LCC pilots making up to 93 dollars an hour less than we do. The NMB looks at the industry pay and benefits not at whether your company can afford it today. That will be a boat anchor on or success next round. It is in your long term interest to see this merger happen, for AMR to emerge as a successful, sustainable company and for them like us to all have our compensation about equal. As many on here have said, good for DAL does not mean good for the Delta Pilots. Why you say?

Well, with the pilot compensation packages being about equal, pilot wages no longer are a competitive advantage. It "can" result in the ability to pattern bargain again. Remember that patterning of yesteryear is where we all look to for the definition of "restoration."

Hindsight is 20/20. You may take issue with that and I have from time to time. I have had concerns over the NAJV language for a few years, but instead of being irritated over past missives, I look towards getting improved protections that are built on what we see today as lacking in the agreement from a few years ago. Pointing fingers or calling someone or some entity a failure feels good, but it never solves the issue we all desire; getting better section 1 protections, better pay and better work rules that directly correlate to a better quality of life at work and at home.

acl65pilot

Worked with the Holding Company language.
Worked with the Virgin Australia JV having a one year measurement period.
Worked with seniority on reserve.

johnso29

Incorrect. The parameters are absences exceeding 15 days or if over 100 hours has been used. As I said, as of last week only 31 Good Faith calls had been made. And from the conversation I've had with several reps from different bases, the union is not lying down on this. There pushing back on those calls as it is.

johnso29

Do you have proof to back your claim that the 717s were coming anyway? Or is that simply your assumption? And what non compliance? If you're referring to the AF/KLM JV, there currently isn't a violation of our contract. But you already knew that, didn't you?

scambo1

J29;

The non-compliance is cumulative (I suspect you know this.). DAL could flood the market with transatlantic widebodies and not hope to make up the imbalance. It is clearly irrepairable.

On the 717...Why are we even involved in what aircraft the company acquires? Why did the union even push this?

johnso29

The fact that it's irrepairable is irrelevant from a grievance standpoint. We can't grieve something that isn't a violation of our contract. Does anyone really think Delta is happy about the money bleeding flights that AF/KLM is operating? When they lose $$$, Delta loses $$$. And AF/KLM has been losing LOTS of $$$ for years now. I'm fairly certain Delta management can only manage Delta. They can't force AF/KLM to stop flying routes.

As to the 717s, I'd say the union was smart. They knew 717s or 319s were available for a very quick delivery. What if the company picked the C-Series? An airplane that hasn't even flown yet, & is way over budget.

capncrunch

These are great questions, what should we get for noncompliance?

Judging from our previous track record on things of this nature, we won't get anything near a fair and equitable trade but I'll bet it will be touted as such.

Money is something everyone can get on board with but there is no way we will see that. I already guessed a few pages back what we will probably see.

iaflyer

But if the company thinks that the future Grievance can be "solved" for say, $1 they'll continue to disregard that part of the contract. If they think that the Grievance will cost them $10 million, then they might think twice about violating that part of the contract.

I think many of the pilots on here (including me) are telling their reps that they don't want to give on this issue - take them to the mat, and press them hard. It's all of our future upgrades - whether to widebody FO or Captain.

We traded something for that AF/KLM JV scope years ago. Time for the company to stick to their part of the bargain.

shiznit

The noncompliance is likely but can be averted. If AF pulled 4 A380's off of transatlantic flying next month and replaced it with DL metal they could probably get back in compliance by the end of the cure period. (Odds of the French playing along, 1,000,000:1)

The problem was AF's refusal to pull down over the last two years like DL/KL/AZ did, not because DL refused to fly more. It doesn't matter though, the failure of AF means DL will likely not live up to their agreement with the DL pilots. The MEC seems to be taking a pretty clear stand on this. There is leverage, compensation for the block hours/pay difference is easy; the hard part is quantifying restitution for the QOL loss, and prevention going forward.

We have a year and a half to see this play out, enough time that 2/3 of the rep seats will have had an election in the meantime. Vote accordingly.