Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-12-2013, 09:44 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
You are a best selling author. And this is some big deal for you? Really?
But flying out of NY has it's perks too. I had Al Sharpton and Rudy Juliani recently (different flights though, unfortunately because the donnybrook that might have happened in back would have been epic)
But flying out of NY has it's perks too. I had Al Sharpton and Rudy Juliani recently (different flights though, unfortunately because the donnybrook that might have happened in back would have been epic)
08-12-2013, 10:02 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
he might have done it on purpose to get them out of the way. now all he can do is sit long call for the rest of the month.
08-12-2013, 10:22 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
fwiw it's often said that seniority had no part in the straight RAW system, that's incorrect.
3 things from the old straight RAW system:
Now there were several senior pilots who had complaints about the old system and occasionally the complaints were based on it was unfair a guy only available for 3 days didn't get the 4-day trip that was assigned to them. That's still the case and would be the case on a seniority only based system.
Or that a senior guy with a RAW score of 1 point lower than a junior pilot gets a trip instead of the junior guy. But the line has to be drawn somewhere, I mean we assign seniority by your ssn and nobody complains.
3 things from the old straight RAW system:
- When your RAW score equaled another pilots and you had the same number of days, the most junior pilot was up next. At the beginning of the month everyone had 0 RAW score so the senior pilot flew last.
- SC assignments were random in who did it and the quantity of pilots who sat SC.
- SC = 0 points. It meant nothing.
Now there were several senior pilots who had complaints about the old system and occasionally the complaints were based on it was unfair a guy only available for 3 days didn't get the 4-day trip that was assigned to them. That's still the case and would be the case on a seniority only based system.
Or that a senior guy with a RAW score of 1 point lower than a junior pilot gets a trip instead of the junior guy. But the line has to be drawn somewhere, I mean we assign seniority by your ssn and nobody complains.
08-12-2013, 10:35 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
I think most fair minded people agree we should have a equitable reserve system that partly weighs seniority, but does not unduly burden our junior Pilots. I am all for such a system. And when I say junior I mean junior in seat, a 1500 seniority number can be junior on 777 reserve so it is not really a junior vs. senior issue, but more of a fairness and QOL issue in my mind.
The problem is one mans fair system is another mans hose job. I personally think the current bucket systems is a good compromise. Not perfect by any means, so lets improve it where we can, but overall not too bad.
At times since the system started I have looked at different categories and posted actual numbers. Yes, actual data points like RAW scores and SC assignments but those who don't think the system is fair just blow this off and recite some anecdotal evidence of the perceived unfairness of the system.
Well - I would rather have hard facts then anecdotal evidence. Hopefully DALPA will release some system-wide numbers that covers both busy and slow months and we can adjust the buckets if required. But until I see some solid evidence that supports changing the system I am fine with it as is - with the one exception of correcting and improving the SC assignments.
My category LAX 73N is pretty small so it is very random to the point that seniority is often trumped by days of availability etc. That is OK because it serves to even everything out. Once again I have looked at a larger NB category - ATL 320 B and here is what it looks like for tomorrow:
The following are the RAW scores with associated SC assignments as of 13 August:
RAW-S/C
77-0
54-1
47-3
74-2
72-0
47-2
24-3
33-0
96-0
34-1
31-4
97-0
89-0
I realize that a snapshot of 1 category does not paint a 100% accurate picture of the system, but its better than me saying "I got hosed on reserve all month and three guys did not fly at all."
It looks pretty good to me. The 3 guys in bucket 2 should now be able to relax until the others catch-up. The weak link in this chain is that none of these bucket 2 guys had any SC assignments so they may be again called out from a SC assignment. I think this needs to be addressed but all in all the whole bucket concept, and the 80 point buckets seem OK to me.
Scoop
The problem is one mans fair system is another mans hose job. I personally think the current bucket systems is a good compromise. Not perfect by any means, so lets improve it where we can, but overall not too bad.
At times since the system started I have looked at different categories and posted actual numbers. Yes, actual data points like RAW scores and SC assignments but those who don't think the system is fair just blow this off and recite some anecdotal evidence of the perceived unfairness of the system.
Well - I would rather have hard facts then anecdotal evidence. Hopefully DALPA will release some system-wide numbers that covers both busy and slow months and we can adjust the buckets if required. But until I see some solid evidence that supports changing the system I am fine with it as is - with the one exception of correcting and improving the SC assignments.
My category LAX 73N is pretty small so it is very random to the point that seniority is often trumped by days of availability etc. That is OK because it serves to even everything out. Once again I have looked at a larger NB category - ATL 320 B and here is what it looks like for tomorrow:
The following are the RAW scores with associated SC assignments as of 13 August:
RAW-S/C
77-0
54-1
47-3
74-2
72-0
47-2
24-3
33-0
96-0
34-1
31-4
97-0
89-0
I realize that a snapshot of 1 category does not paint a 100% accurate picture of the system, but its better than me saying "I got hosed on reserve all month and three guys did not fly at all."
It looks pretty good to me. The 3 guys in bucket 2 should now be able to relax until the others catch-up. The weak link in this chain is that none of these bucket 2 guys had any SC assignments so they may be again called out from a SC assignment. I think this needs to be addressed but all in all the whole bucket concept, and the 80 point buckets seem OK to me.
Scoop
No kidding this happened a few months ago:
I had credited around 70 hrs (triple digit RAW) and had 3SC credits
The other guy had not flown a single day and also had 3 SC credits.
Both of us had one day of availability.
The local pilot with zero credit was senior.
I was just finishing up a four-day and had the jumpseat reserved for the commute home.
Guess which pilot got the extra SC and had to buy a hotel room and stick around for an extra day...
Seniority should matter...after all I'll be senior someday, but the short-call credit has to improve or influence the RAW score in a way to avoid having a guy work every day of availability for the month AND sit an additional short-call, while the other guy who lives in-base stayed at home all month.
I think we should actually incentivize local pilots to pick up SC to up their RAW value and relive commuters from buying hotel rooms to sit around.
- As a commuter I would much rather fly.
- As an in-base pilot I would gladly fill up on SC if it put me in higher buckets...
Cheers
George
08-12-2013, 10:37 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
It looks pretty good to me. The 3 guys in bucket 2 should now be able to relax until the others catch-up. The weak link in this chain is that none of these bucket 2 guys had any SC assignments so they may be again called out from a SC assignment. I think this needs to be addressed but all in all the whole bucket concept, and the 80 point buckets seem OK to me.
Scoop
Scoop
A senior pilot aiming for a month off at full pay will not like the idea they are stuck sitting SC multiple times and risk flying on those occasions just because a junior guy hit bucket #2. The point is not to come to work and tying SC and buckets together messes that up.
08-12-2013, 10:54 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Here's how you get pilot, say #4325 (junior guy) to fly into the ALV+15 window while pilot #4324 (senior guy) flies 0.
Have both pilots available for 2 days on August 1st, both 0 RAW. Junior guy gets a 2-day off LC, he flies trip. SCs are assigned to even more junior pilots so senior guy doesn't fly at all or sit SC. End score,
Have both pilots available for 2 days on August 1st, both 0 RAW. Junior guy gets a 2-day off LC, he flies trip. SCs are assigned to even more junior pilots so senior guy doesn't fly at all or sit SC. End score,
Junior Dude 10.3 hours and 22 RAW pts, Senior guy 0 and 0.
August 5th, both available for 4-day, junior guy gets trip on long call. Senior guy sits 1 SC. End score at the end of that week, Junior Dude 30.9 hours and 66 points and Senior dude 0 and 5 pts.
Aug 13th, both available for 4-days. Junior dude is still in bucket 1, he gets 4-day, Senior dude sits SC one day but doesn't flying again. Junior Dude 52 hours and 110 points, Senior dude 0 hours and 10 points.
August 20th, again both available for 4-days. Junior dude is bucket 2, but 0 SCs, so they're assigned SC and he gets 4-day. Senior dude assigned SC but doesn't get anything. Junior dude 72 hours and 154 RAW. Senior dude 0 hours and 15 points of RAW.
Aug 27th, last week of reserve. Senior dude, 1 more SC. Junior dude... gets another SC and another 4-day. Junior guy 198 raw, bucket #4, 92.7 hours and 198 RAW. Senior dude... 15 RAW and 0 hours flying.
If you tie SC to the bucket, junior dude might not have sat SC and wouldn't have therefore flown the last 2 4-days and it'd been forced on a senior pilot until senior dude hit 3 SCs.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 08-12-2013 at 11:38 PM.
08-12-2013, 11:07 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
But let me be perfectly clear. I am in no way complaining. This is the job of a junior reserve.
Just had to one up you 80!
Denny
08-13-2013, 03:24 AM
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MSP7ERB
Posts: 1,886
I got 58 1/2 hours of credit by August 11th. And scheduling called this morning for an inverse assignment on my day off that I didn't answer. I don't sit SC since the category is so short. I typically get assigned a trip at 7 AM the day before I work.
08-13-2013, 03:44 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2011
Posts: 114
Speaking of commuting and reserve, I propose in the next contract we use the VALUE provided to the company by commuters in allowing the airline the scheduling flexibility they tout and desire.
The company has whittled down training to almost nothing. There is no impediment to continually jack the with lives of pilots on the bottom of each category. For this group of pilots, commuting has become a way of life, along with multiple aircraft and base changes.
How to accomplish this and change the mentality of those believing the "commuter's choice" is for smarter heads than mine.
The company has whittled down training to almost nothing. There is no impediment to continually jack the with lives of pilots on the bottom of each category. For this group of pilots, commuting has become a way of life, along with multiple aircraft and base changes.
How to accomplish this and change the mentality of those believing the "commuter's choice" is for smarter heads than mine.
08-13-2013, 04:31 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Decoupled
Posts: 922
So, what's up with the bids? As of right now, 8:30 Eastern, they haven't even wiped out the 2012 awards. You can't back door any of the categories.
Carry on.
Carry on.
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