Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-12-2013, 04:15 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,169
You're not the only one with that opinion. It will be interesting to see the outcome.
08-12-2013, 04:17 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
I agree swing the poll results would be interesting but they don't publish poll results do they?
08-12-2013, 04:22 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 589
well I wish when they poll they'd just do it through the internet or something-then they could get everyone. Who's to say the sample is valid? Did they poll the same number of senior vs. junior people? Did they even poll people that are on reserve? Something just doesn't seem right about doing a small sample poll on something that affects everyone. And also I was told a few months ago a poll was coming in August and to let my thoughts be heard then. Wow.
08-12-2013, 04:27 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,169
Even if it is published in black and white, there will be those saying it was tampered with, forged, faked, etc. so I'm not sure how much good it would do anyways. The entire point is so the MEC can make the best decision based on what the majority of pilots want.
Timbo, my point earlier was even if we, as a group, want bigger buckets, it won't automatically happen. The company would have to agree to it, as it would increase our cost. Now if we ask for something that saves them money, they would probably accept, just my opinion.
08-12-2013, 04:32 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 377
So are you saying a junior guy hitting bucket 2 with 32 flight hours on the 11th is not fair? If the senior guys sits on the couch for the rest of the month in bucket 1 so will the junior guy in bucket 2. The bucket system is self correcting in this regard.
OBTW - the system you are describing is exactly what we had at DAL - I should know, I was the plug in LAX back then. The bucket system seems to me to be a very compromise between spreading the work and honoring seniority.
Scoop
OBTW - the system you are describing is exactly what we had at DAL - I should know, I was the plug in LAX back then. The bucket system seems to me to be a very compromise between spreading the work and honoring seniority.
Scoop
08-12-2013, 04:34 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,169
well I wish when they poll they'd just do it through the internet or something-then they could get everyone. Who's to say the sample is valid? Did they poll the same number of senior vs. junior people? Did they even poll people that are on reserve? Something just doesn't seem right about doing a small sample poll on something that affects everyone. And also I was told a few months ago a poll was coming in August and to let my thoughts be heard then. Wow.
I get that you specifically wanted to be asked your thoughts, but its not cost effective to call every single pilot. The MEC did that last year and it took nearly 4 months to complete the call. It is a massive effort.
All parts of the list: junior, senior, reg, rsv, etc were called. Something like 700 or 800 pilots were called to achieve a representative sample. The polling is conducted by a professional third party that had been doing this for decades:
http://www.teamsterssfo.com/items/is...MENTedited.pdf
There is nothing shady going on here. In fact, I like the fact that the MEC was responsible enough to order the poll to figure out exactly what the majority wants, in light of the conflicting resolutions.
08-12-2013, 05:32 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: DAL Pilot
Posts: 1,133
So are you saying a junior guy hitting bucket 2 with 32 flight hours on the 11th is not fair? If the senior guys sits on the couch for the rest of the month in bucket 1 so will the junior guy in bucket 2. The bucket system is self correcting in this regard.
OBTW - the system you are describing is exactly what we had at DAL - I should know, I was the plug in LAX back then. The bucket system seems to me to be a very compromise between spreading the work and honoring seniority.
Scoop
OBTW - the system you are describing is exactly what we had at DAL - I should know, I was the plug in LAX back then. The bucket system seems to me to be a very compromise between spreading the work and honoring seniority.
Scoop
08-12-2013, 05:48 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 489
So are you saying a junior guy hitting bucket 2 with 32 flight hours on the 11th is not fair? If the senior guys sits on the couch for the rest of the month in bucket 1 so will the junior guy in bucket 2. The bucket system is self correcting in this regard.
OBTW - the system you are describing is exactly what we had at DAL - I should know, I was the plug in LAX back then. The bucket system seems to me to be a very compromise between spreading the work and honoring seniority.
Scoop
OBTW - the system you are describing is exactly what we had at DAL - I should know, I was the plug in LAX back then. The bucket system seems to me to be a very compromise between spreading the work and honoring seniority.
Scoop
I agree with this as well.
With some tweaking to the SC situation the current bucket system is a good compromise.
The previous system (pre bucket) basically ignored seniority unless raw scores were equal. And the only time that usually happened was at the beginning of the month when everyone was at zero.
Political rant: distributing reserve flying equally between junior and senior seems to run contrary to our entirely seniority-based world. What is next to be changed?
08-12-2013, 05:54 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
I agree with this as well.
With some tweaking to the SC situation the current bucket system is a good compromise.
The previous system (pre bucket) basically ignored seniority unless raw scores were equal. And the only time that usually happened was at the beginning of the month when everyone was at zero.
Political rant: distributing reserve flying equally between junior and senior seems to run contrary to our entirely seniority-based world. What is next to be changed?
With some tweaking to the SC situation the current bucket system is a good compromise.
The previous system (pre bucket) basically ignored seniority unless raw scores were equal. And the only time that usually happened was at the beginning of the month when everyone was at zero.
Political rant: distributing reserve flying equally between junior and senior seems to run contrary to our entirely seniority-based world. What is next to be changed?
FWIW, in regard to getting to bucket 2- It takes around a 4 day and a 2-3 day to hit bucket 2.
08-12-2013, 06:05 PM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
I agree with this as well.
With some tweaking to the SC situation the current bucket system is a good compromise.
The previous system (pre bucket) basically ignored seniority unless raw scores were equal. And the only time that usually happened was at the beginning of the month when everyone was at zero.
Political rant: distributing reserve flying equally between junior and senior seems to run contrary to our entirely seniority-based world. What is next to be changed?
With some tweaking to the SC situation the current bucket system is a good compromise.
The previous system (pre bucket) basically ignored seniority unless raw scores were equal. And the only time that usually happened was at the beginning of the month when everyone was at zero.
Political rant: distributing reserve flying equally between junior and senior seems to run contrary to our entirely seniority-based world. What is next to be changed?
Sorry, but the highlighted sentence really grinds my gears. This is a job. If you want to get paid then you're going to have to WORK. This isn't a charity. It's a business. It's also our unions duty to represent and work to improve the QOL of ALL of it's pilots. So it's not ok for someone to expect the bottom of the category to do all the work while he/she sits around all month doing nothing.
When people are in the same bucket, seniority is honored. The system absolutely honors seniority.
I'm sorry for jumping down your throat.
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