Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-28-2009, 05:06 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
How about this though. Scheds need to determine how many short calls they need prior to the month, and we bid for short call... JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE WE DO.... And... if they need extra short call pilots... premium pay. Thoughts?
08-28-2009, 05:30 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
Hey DET 320 guys, in the practice bid package there was a daily rotation that RONd in SAT. In your roster report there was only one trip in the whole table. Do you guys ron in SAT? If not, what north crews ron there?
08-28-2009, 05:38 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Ugly
Posts: 57
JFK Road Show
Anything interesting come out of the JFK roadshow yesterday?
08-28-2009, 05:51 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Oh no you di-in't. (Picture head moving side to side like a prize chicken)... You are right, it isn't as bad as it could be.. by the same token, it isn't as good as it could be either.
How about this though. Scheds need to determine how many short calls they need prior to the month, and we bid for short call... JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE WE DO.... And... if they need extra short call pilots... premium pay. Thoughts?
How about this though. Scheds need to determine how many short calls they need prior to the month, and we bid for short call... JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE WE DO.... And... if they need extra short call pilots... premium pay. Thoughts?
Add to it, they look at how many WS and YS requests are in. If they see that there are guys with WS and YS requests in that will cover one, two and sometimes three and four day assignments as they come out, they will use less SC periods the next calendar day.
Doing what you propose will actually add to the amount of SC days each of us gets. I do not like the way they do it now, but it is better than them making sure six days are given to each pilot at the start of the month. Add to it, that they company would never go for it, as they want the flexability. If a guy has six days of avail and he has a SC on day two and four, it makes it very hard for them to assign a trip to him with 12+ hr notice that will take away part of their staffing plan. It will back them in to a corner. Now of course it will require more GS to be given, and I am sure the company will know this without much thinking.
What I propose is something like this. Six days is fine, as I never get all of them. Maybe in the winter but not in the summer. SC is really a work day. I say a reserve gets a min day credit of 5:15 for sitting SC added to his monthly credit count. It adds to the raw and pay him for this time. Sitting SC now, really does nothing for you except keep you by the phone and out of the mud in the back yard.
I also think that they need to change the way they assign them. It cannot necessarily be seniority based, as it top to bottom, but it can be based top to bottom on the Raw Buckets. Giving SC to a guy who has the highest raw in base on his last day stinks. It needs to go to the guy that has not flown and is sitting there. (IE lower RAW) I also would like to see some kind of option for commuters to request a trip and or LC and expect to get it their first day of reserve. Putting guys on SC their first day of reserve is just a way to get them in base. Let them know that DAL understands time at home, and if we do not need them their first day of reserve, a guy that is living in base can get 5:15 credit for sitting SC and the guy commuting in, can leave in the morning of his first reserve day, knowing that they are on LC. It is huge win for out of base reserve pilots and would allow that one extra night at home a week. I am not a commuter and would be all for helping these guys out. Family is number one and the best way to keep the family together is to be present as much as possible.
Guys living in base will squawk that this favors the commuter. Well, make it seniority based then, I do not care. What are your ideas, but something needs to be done. Lets share the ideas and come up with something that is better than what we have and helps the gander.
One thing I think we need to do as well, is change the way we assign international Reserve. This is important since we are moving to a combined ER/767 catgeory. IMO first, scheduling needs to designate a domestic reserve and a international reserve. Sitting SC for a domestic trip for 12 hrs and then the last 12 being international only is a lot. In places like ATL, you are really on the hook for two SC periods. 24 hrs is ridiculous as well. With an international SC 12 may be too short, but 15 hrs should be more than enough. Again, when assigned SC we need to get the min day credit. Long Call is great and of no consequence to me, so I can see not getting credit to sit a LC day.
While I am on my soap box....
I also think that reserves need to get credited and paid what a line holder does. No more of this reserve and regular pay. It all needs to be the same. A training CD or an Even needs to pay the min day. Basically if you want me to do a CD, pay me 5:15, you want me to go a PC, pay me 5:15. It is just the cost of doing business. Reserves should get rotation gurantee as well. If you get a trip canceled mid rotation, you should get that credit. You still get the opportunity to sit in the crew lounge for five hrs, you should also get the pay.
Suit up pay? Nope, you call you for a trip, it need to be paid at least a min day credit. (Called out for a three day and they cancel it. I agree that three days of pay may be a little much, so pay for the first day of the trip, and or min day for day one)
08-28-2009, 05:59 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 403
Oh no you di-in't. (Picture head moving side to side like a prize chicken)... You are right, it isn't as bad as it could be.. by the same token, it isn't as good as it could be either.
How about this though. Scheds need to determine how many short calls they need prior to the month, and we bid for short call... JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE WE DO.... And... if they need extra short call pilots... premium pay. Thoughts?
How about this though. Scheds need to determine how many short calls they need prior to the month, and we bid for short call... JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE WE DO.... And... if they need extra short call pilots... premium pay. Thoughts?
Now, what happens if they run out of short call pilots. That's the bad news of their system. A long call pilot can be put on short call for their whole block of long call days.
A trip is a trip, and should be paid the same regardless of reserve or line. DH is a DH, and should count for DPA. Reserve guarantee needs to be higher, and there should be some sort of seniority base to trip assignment. Restoration of reserve.
Oh, and the Vols need to be put on probation.
08-28-2009, 06:01 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 403
08-28-2009, 06:08 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
They actually do this at USAir, T. They have full months of LC and SC. SC gets paid more than the long call lines do. I think like 5 hours more or something to that effect. They can also pass in seniority order, and keep a sort of RAW score. As an example, if a trip comes open, the senior pilot can pass on it if there are reserves available junior to them. If the reserve has a RAW score (the equivalent of our RAW score 10 points higher than the passer) they can pass it back or take it.
Now, what happens if they run out of short call pilots. That's the bad news of their system. A long call pilot can be put on short call for their whole block of long call days.
A trip is a trip, and should be paid the same regardless of reserve or line. DH is a DH, and should count for DPA. Reserve guarantee needs to be higher, and there should be some sort of seniority base to trip assignment. Restoration of reserve.
Oh, and the Vols need to be put on probation.
Now, what happens if they run out of short call pilots. That's the bad news of their system. A long call pilot can be put on short call for their whole block of long call days.
A trip is a trip, and should be paid the same regardless of reserve or line. DH is a DH, and should count for DPA. Reserve guarantee needs to be higher, and there should be some sort of seniority base to trip assignment. Restoration of reserve.
Oh, and the Vols need to be put on probation.
I also like the idea NWA had of LC and SC lines. SC line work less days. I think we could do that here too.
I also agree with Chatter. No more 76 seat jet. Yes, they can get 100 more but they need to be at or above 800 mainline jets to do that. (only about 30 more 70/76 seaters can be bought on the 3-1 rule to hit 255 anyway) The company has said they do not want any more of those jets, so let make them cap the 76 seat jets at 153.
08-28-2009, 06:17 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
ACL, I like that idea of credit for short call days. You really are at work during a sc period. Keep the guarantee at 70 but give credit for sc. Also 1st day either a trip or lc is another great idea. I have never been assigned all 6 short calls. This winter may be differenct, but I have been used every reserve block too. Those two changes should be cost neutral and very family friendly.
08-28-2009, 06:19 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
Doesn't the rise in oil prices make the case for a new fuel efficient 100 seater more than not? If the fuel burn is less or equal to a 70/76 seater at more capacity does that not reduce CASM?
08-28-2009, 06:28 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Works great for us and not so great for us. Think about it. They will say they need 20 a day, every day. Today that is not the case. They take things like weather in to account. At least the good ones do. If we are going to have a weather day and a decent possibility of a IROP event in ATL or NYC they will assign 20+ SC days to cover the possibility of needed bodies quick.
Add to it, they look at how many WS and YS requests are in. If they see that there are guys with WS and YS requests in that will cover one, two and sometimes three and four day assignments as they come out, they will use less SC periods the next calendar day.
Doing what you propose will actually add to the amount of SC days each of us gets. I do not like the way they do it now, but it is better than them making sure six days are given to each pilot at the start of the month. Add to it, that they company would never go for it, as they want the flexability. If a guy has six days of avail and he has a SC on day two and four, it makes it very hard for them to assign a trip to him with 12+ hr notice that will take away part of their staffing plan. It will back them in to a corner. Now of course it will require more GS to be given, and I am sure the company will know this without much thinking.
What I propose is something like this. Six days is fine, as I never get all of them. Maybe in the winter but not in the summer. SC is really a work day. I say a reserve gets a min day credit of 5:15 for sitting SC added to his monthly credit count. It adds to the raw and pay him for this time. Sitting SC now, really does nothing for you except keep you by the phone and out of the mud in the back yard.
I also think that they need to change the way they assign them. It cannot necessarily be seniority based, as it top to bottom, but it can be based top to bottom on the Raw Buckets. Giving SC to a guy who has the highest raw in base on his last day stinks. It needs to go to the guy that has not flown and is sitting there. (IE lower RAW) I also would like to see some kind of option for commuters to request a trip and or LC and expect to get it their first day of reserve. Putting guys on SC their first day of reserve is just a way to get them in base. Let them know that DAL understands time at home, and if we do not need them their first day of reserve, a guy that is living in base can get 5:15 credit for sitting SC and the guy commuting in, can leave in the morning of his first reserve day, knowing that they are on LC. It is huge win for out of base reserve pilots and would allow that one extra night at home a week. I am not a commuter and would be all for helping these guys out. Family is number one and the best way to keep the family together is to be present as much as possible.
Guys living in base will squawk that this favors the commuter. Well, make it seniority based then, I do not care. What are your ideas, but something needs to be done. Lets share the ideas and come up with something that is better than what we have and helps the gander.
One thing I think we need to do as well, is change the way we assign international Reserve. This is important since we are moving to a combined ER/767 catgeory. IMO first, scheduling needs to designate a domestic reserve and a international reserve. Sitting SC for a domestic trip for 12 hrs and then the last 12 being international only is a lot. In places like ATL, you are really on the hook for two SC periods. 24 hrs is ridiculous as well. With an international SC 12 may be too short, but 15 hrs should be more than enough. Again, when assigned SC we need to get the min day credit. Long Call is great and of no consequence to me, so I can see not getting credit to sit a LC day.
While I am on my soap box....
I also think that reserves need to get credited and paid what a line holder does. No more of this reserve and regular pay. It all needs to be the same. A training CD or an Even needs to pay the min day. Basically if you want me to do a CD, pay me 5:15, you want me to go a PC, pay me 5:15. It is just the cost of doing business. Reserves should get rotation gurantee as well. If you get a trip canceled mid rotation, you should get that credit. You still get the opportunity to sit in the crew lounge for five hrs, you should also get the pay.
Suit up pay? Nope, you call you for a trip, it need to be paid at least a min day credit. (Called out for a three day and they cancel it. I agree that three days of pay may be a little much, so pay for the first day of the trip, and or min day for day one)
Add to it, they look at how many WS and YS requests are in. If they see that there are guys with WS and YS requests in that will cover one, two and sometimes three and four day assignments as they come out, they will use less SC periods the next calendar day.
Doing what you propose will actually add to the amount of SC days each of us gets. I do not like the way they do it now, but it is better than them making sure six days are given to each pilot at the start of the month. Add to it, that they company would never go for it, as they want the flexability. If a guy has six days of avail and he has a SC on day two and four, it makes it very hard for them to assign a trip to him with 12+ hr notice that will take away part of their staffing plan. It will back them in to a corner. Now of course it will require more GS to be given, and I am sure the company will know this without much thinking.
What I propose is something like this. Six days is fine, as I never get all of them. Maybe in the winter but not in the summer. SC is really a work day. I say a reserve gets a min day credit of 5:15 for sitting SC added to his monthly credit count. It adds to the raw and pay him for this time. Sitting SC now, really does nothing for you except keep you by the phone and out of the mud in the back yard.
I also think that they need to change the way they assign them. It cannot necessarily be seniority based, as it top to bottom, but it can be based top to bottom on the Raw Buckets. Giving SC to a guy who has the highest raw in base on his last day stinks. It needs to go to the guy that has not flown and is sitting there. (IE lower RAW) I also would like to see some kind of option for commuters to request a trip and or LC and expect to get it their first day of reserve. Putting guys on SC their first day of reserve is just a way to get them in base. Let them know that DAL understands time at home, and if we do not need them their first day of reserve, a guy that is living in base can get 5:15 credit for sitting SC and the guy commuting in, can leave in the morning of his first reserve day, knowing that they are on LC. It is huge win for out of base reserve pilots and would allow that one extra night at home a week. I am not a commuter and would be all for helping these guys out. Family is number one and the best way to keep the family together is to be present as much as possible.
Guys living in base will squawk that this favors the commuter. Well, make it seniority based then, I do not care. What are your ideas, but something needs to be done. Lets share the ideas and come up with something that is better than what we have and helps the gander.
One thing I think we need to do as well, is change the way we assign international Reserve. This is important since we are moving to a combined ER/767 catgeory. IMO first, scheduling needs to designate a domestic reserve and a international reserve. Sitting SC for a domestic trip for 12 hrs and then the last 12 being international only is a lot. In places like ATL, you are really on the hook for two SC periods. 24 hrs is ridiculous as well. With an international SC 12 may be too short, but 15 hrs should be more than enough. Again, when assigned SC we need to get the min day credit. Long Call is great and of no consequence to me, so I can see not getting credit to sit a LC day.
While I am on my soap box....
I also think that reserves need to get credited and paid what a line holder does. No more of this reserve and regular pay. It all needs to be the same. A training CD or an Even needs to pay the min day. Basically if you want me to do a CD, pay me 5:15, you want me to go a PC, pay me 5:15. It is just the cost of doing business. Reserves should get rotation gurantee as well. If you get a trip canceled mid rotation, you should get that credit. You still get the opportunity to sit in the crew lounge for five hrs, you should also get the pay.
Suit up pay? Nope, you call you for a trip, it need to be paid at least a min day credit. (Called out for a three day and they cancel it. I agree that three days of pay may be a little much, so pay for the first day of the trip, and or min day for day one)
I agree with a lot of this, and also with what brakechatter says below (except for the Vols on probation thing... punk
). But I am glad to see some ideas being thrown around. Mine was strictly off the cuff, but I really do think the system can be a lot better within the monetary constraints we apparently have with the company. And... I COMPLETELY agree with your pay schemes for CDs and other events. I think we should be getting paid for the same amount of time that a sim instructor gets paid when we are in the box... among other things...
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