Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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06-11-2013, 06:40 PM

#132481

Carl Spackler

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Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

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29. ALPA is $75M in debt. It is taking out more and more loans to cover legal expenses in multiple conflict of interest lawsuits.

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Originally Posted by Free Mason

Are they? Can DPA show that math

That's a good point. I don't remember seeing the calculations and references for this number.

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30. ALPA’s first goal is to grow membership and associated dues income. Representing current members is secondary.

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Originally Posted by Free Mason

Wrong on all accounts, but getting APA and SWAPA to ALPA would help ALPA members. After all didn't SWAPA prosper with PFT and no pensions. Think ALPA would have promoted that?

Both of these are personal opinions...especially yours. I happen to fully agree that ALPA is all about growing the membership regardless of the means it takes to achieve that. But, that's my opinion.

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31. ALPA has taken in and been responsible for over $3 BILLION in total income since 2000. Has only $39M in NET assets left.

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Originally Posted by Free Mason

That's right. Its been flowers and sunny skies the last 12 years. Nothing has happened in our country to our pilots to need to spend any of it. ALPA National has not cut staff by 25% either

You forgot about the fact that ALPA has LOST a number of high profile lawsuits brought by their own members. Those damages cost ALPA a ton of money.

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32. Minimum ALPA Designated Rep annual pay: CA Roberts - $283K, CA Van Sickle - $293K, FO Guilfoyle - $247K, FO Fries - $225K, CA Dominguez - $277K, FO Rogers - $247K, FO Olmstead - $225K, FO Coons - $229K – FO Nevins - $193K.

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Originally Posted by Free Mason

They get what the Policy Manual allows. Its in black and white for all to see.

True enough. And those are some damn high numbers given those pilots' seniority.

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33. Jobs promised in last contract. No hiring for all of 2012 or 2013. 757s to be parked and 737s will replace..…pay cut.

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Originally Posted by Free Mason

Yep we did not hire. Sucks, but how do you force a company to hire when you are overstaffed and the pilot group overwhelmingly approved work rule efficiencies? Ever think this is what the pilots said to do in the survey? Made me wonder too.

There's one sure way to prove that Free Mason. Publish the survey results! I'm sure one of the top choices of pilots was to give up more productivity so we can operate with fewer pilots.

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34. ALPA Reps stated that Delta had no more left to give in last contract. Delta gives investors $1 BILLION (dividend and buyback) as a result. ALPA should have listened to the pilots instead of pursuing different agenda.

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Originally Posted by Free Mason

They did and sent it to us for a vote. We voted it in. A stable company is exactly why I'd vote in a new union.

What ridiculous spin. DALPA won't publish the survey results because it would clearly show what those 5 reps said...which is that DALPA did not negotiate via the pilots' survey. And yes we voted for it, but DALPA controlled the message and the communication to pilots for that decision. My opinion is that DALPA did nothing but provide disinformation in an attempt to save a poorly negotiated TA and keep themselves from being embarrassed and thrown out of office. They failed at that since most were thrown out of office anyway.

Carl

06-11-2013, 06:47 PM

#132482

Carl Spackler

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Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

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Originally Posted by tsquare

Cynicism aside..... Do you think 5000 of 900,000 is worth all this angst? If you do, you better think it through...

And personally I am not interested in punching the company in the nose. It is pointless to do so when they make all the decisions, and they usually hold the better cards. I've got my captain's seat. If you are comfortable putting yours at risk, then let's throw down.

Classic tsquare.

Embarrassing.

Carl

06-11-2013, 06:52 PM

#132483

Brocc15

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Joined APC: Jul 2010

Posts: 432

Do we do an ESV for Normal requal? The 88 letter is confusing. It says we do a systems validation, but it is not anywhere on my training schedule

06-11-2013, 06:55 PM

#132484

boog123

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Position: Capt

Posts: 2,049

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceman49

At what point do you decide to enforce portions of the contract? How far do you let the violations occur until enough is enough? Why even have a contract, perhaps we should just be happy with what the company gives you.

If our pay was cut 25% tomorrow he would say you guys better shut up or it could be 50%.

06-11-2013, 06:58 PM

#132485

buzzpat

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Position: Urban chicken rancher.

Posts: 6,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceman49

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/12/bu...%2Findex.jsonp

I used to fly "the curve" routinely and check guys out. It was bizarre. Once I saw a 747 in the drink with only the tail showing. Quite the old school airport.

06-11-2013, 07:01 PM

#132486

iceman49

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Posts: 3,716

First flight after OE was into this airport...the dual ndb app, ehaaa

It must have been designed for DC3s

06-11-2013, 07:02 PM

#132487

buzzpat

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Joined APC: Feb 2008

Position: Urban chicken rancher.

Posts: 6,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Classic tsquare.

Embarrassing.

Carl

C'mon guys. No dog in this hunt. Please move on. Its getting tired....and I'm tired of having to read through it. I'm sure you are both great guys and I'd love to fly with you.....but this **** is well beyond tired. Count me as one more guy who will move on if it doesn't stop.

06-11-2013, 07:07 PM

#132488

iceman49

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Joined APC: Jun 2008

Posts: 3,716

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brocc15

Do we do an ESV for Normal requal? The 88 letter is confusing. It says we do a systems validation, but it is not anywhere on my training schedule

Pretty sure that you have an ESV, probably best to contact the training manager.

06-11-2013, 07:36 PM

#132489

Carl Spackler

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Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Crane

I'm not sure I agree with what you are saying here. The ALPA president signs any contract negotiated with ALPA as the pilots union (Delta, United, Pinnacle etc). He is signing that particular contract for that particular airline pilot group as referenced on the title page of the contract.

The ALPA president signs our contract along with the MEC chairman under the title: "for the association". Look on the last page of our PWA and you'll see exactly what I mean. But as we've seen, the ALPA president alone can sign a document "for the association" and it's legal and binding.

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Originally Posted by Denny Crane

Lets substitute "Pinnacle Bridge Agreement" with "United Pilot Agreement" (because ,say, it has some reference to Delta about pay), does that make it an addendum to our contract?

Yes it does, although it would be a meaningless addendum. The Pinnacle agreement specifically references us and our contract. And again, they needed to do this or they wouldn't have bothered to craft this agreement.

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Originally Posted by Denny Crane

I don't think so. If it does become an addendum/LOA/MOU etc., where is it?

As far as your question of ..."where is it?"...as I mentioned earlier, this Pinnacle agreement didn't change our language like an included LOA or MOU. It's physical location is within the Pinnacle agreement, and its reference to us and its signator of the ALPA president.

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Originally Posted by Denny Crane

Easy. For the concessions given in bankruptcy, the Pinnacle pilots wanted some "pro quo's." These consisted of gaining a percentage of the flying we have outsourced and getting interviews

This is a key point here Denny. If the Pinnacle pilots wanted a "quo" from Delta management given their concessions in bankruptcy, and if DALPA had no say in the matter whatsoever, then there was no reason for anything other than an MOU signed by somebody from Delta and somebody from Pinnacle's ALPA. Look at our MOU's and LOA's and you'll mostly find no signatures at all, and only some with one signature from each side. But that's not what was done here. Why? Pinnacle was in no position to demand anything from Delta. Why would Delta (and the ALPA president) go to the trouble of a full fledged and fully signed bridge agreement if it wasn't legally required to do so given the fact that an amendment needed to be made to DALPA's Section 1?

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Originally Posted by Denny Crane

My guess is this discussion would go back and forth for quite awhile. I think the answer to your question above would provide us with a definitive answer. Unfortunately I don't know how to get an answer! As I told Bar yesterday, I was bored and now I'm not so I'll let you have the floor!

Even though we disagree on most of these items, I always appreciate your position Denny. I don't consider it just back and forth. You've definitely taught me a thing or two these past few years.

Carl