Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-11-2013, 06:05 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Posts: 133
You dont have to roll those who have already rolled over 
I agree with some of what you say, however my Reps and a number of others LEC's were not even informed of the purpose of the Special MEC meeting until it started. No I was not in the room and am satisfied with the level of debate that took place. What is also disturbing is a few Reps and committee folks trying to spin the risk/reward and threat out of proportion and in a different direction than the unanimously expressed opinion of the MEC.
I agree with some of what you say, however my Reps and a number of others LEC's were not even informed of the purpose of the Special MEC meeting until it started. No I was not in the room and am satisfied with the level of debate that took place. What is also disturbing is a few Reps and committee folks trying to spin the risk/reward and threat out of proportion and in a different direction than the unanimously expressed opinion of the MEC.If they had no idea about the subject prior to the event, did your Rep(s) indicate they were displeased with this? Mine gave me no indication of this, but I did not ask.
As for some of the "spin" on the other forum, yeah, it appears it has been toned down a bit. No need to manage a group, when the best avenue is information that the group.
06-11-2013, 06:16 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
I respect your opinions ... and respectfully disagree in this case.
Global traffic flows are shifting. We have to change and adapt. What the Northwest pilots negotiated, back when they came up with this, made sense then. Now, trained Economists are all watching the Bank of Japan and preparing their own book deals.
While I gripe a lot about the three year window and non existent enforcement mechanisms, the truth is the AF / KLM / AZ Joint Venture concept is good strategic thinking. By drawing a circle around the whole of the operation we get our balance of anything new management wants to try in that space. It is an inclusive scope concept.
Global traffic flows are shifting. We have to change and adapt. What the Northwest pilots negotiated, back when they came up with this, made sense then. Now, trained Economists are all watching the Bank of Japan and preparing their own book deals.
While I gripe a lot about the three year window and non existent enforcement mechanisms, the truth is the AF / KLM / AZ Joint Venture concept is good strategic thinking. By drawing a circle around the whole of the operation we get our balance of anything new management wants to try in that space. It is an inclusive scope concept.
I'm not saying we should insist on no changes to the Narita scope.
My main concern is that we keep changing our contract and allowing management to do what they want without getting anything in return.
We need to start asking for some stuff besides a re-write of Section 1 that is just going to be re-written again in a few months anyway when management's next "fleeting opportunity" comes up.
The NRT scope restriction may be an ancient relic but I don't care. If management wants to change it then they can give us something we want. ($$$)
Its an opportunity for a bit of "self-help" outside of Section 6. A mini-strike only affecting Narita. Its sole intent is to inflict economic pain.
I wish we had a clause requiring Delta to fly 5 flights a day to Monroe in a DC-3.
I wonder what management would pay to get rid of that?
I approve of constructive engagement but only as long as its a two way street. Its been one way for too long. DALPA has forgotten what its like to be a trade union. They all think they are some kind of junior executives. They sign their non-disclosure agreements, get the secret briefings, learn the corporate handshake and suddenly they are Vice-Presidents of Pilot Relations instead of union reps. They don't know how to bargain anymore.
Last edited by Check Essential; 06-11-2013 at 06:49 AM.
06-11-2013, 06:18 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Posts: 133
I respect your opinions ... and respectfully disagree in this case.
Global traffic flows are shifting. We have to change and adapt. What the Northwest pilots negotiated, back when they came up with this, made sense then. Now, trained Economists are all watching the Bank of Japan and preparing their own book deals.
The other side of this is the capacity increases being brought on line by the Middle Eastern carriers. (I've not seen analysis on this yet) We may have to shift to point to point to compete.
While I gripe a lot about the three year window and non existent enforcement mechanisms, the truth is the AF / KLM / AZ Joint Venture concept is good strategic thinking. By drawing a circle around the whole of the operation we get our balance of anything new management wants to try in that space. A move towards an inclusive scope concept aids our pilots.
Global traffic flows are shifting. We have to change and adapt. What the Northwest pilots negotiated, back when they came up with this, made sense then. Now, trained Economists are all watching the Bank of Japan and preparing their own book deals.
The other side of this is the capacity increases being brought on line by the Middle Eastern carriers. (I've not seen analysis on this yet) We may have to shift to point to point to compete.
While I gripe a lot about the three year window and non existent enforcement mechanisms, the truth is the AF / KLM / AZ Joint Venture concept is good strategic thinking. By drawing a circle around the whole of the operation we get our balance of anything new management wants to try in that space. A move towards an inclusive scope concept aids our pilots.
No one disagrees that there is room for improvement on the AF JV. Virgin Atlantic is going to be a new one, and we will see how it effects the AF JV. Lots going on. Better to engage than be disengaged. Many very significant decisions will be made over the next year or two, and its better to be have frequent communication with your Reps. It give an opportunity to hear the logic behind a decision and offer ideas before a decision is made. IMO, and through what my Reps told me, that is exactly why this information was given to the pilots today, and not after a TA was reached. Take that opportunity and provide input.
06-11-2013, 06:23 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
I get upset when a scope problem is solved with a small pay increase. A union should never "sell" jobs.
I view this Narita dust up like a divorced couple who are arguing over alimony when they suddenly see their kid about to get hit by a car. They forget their disagreement and run out in the road to grab the kid, working together to minimize harm. That's kind of where we are. An economic truck is aimed right for one of our children.
06-11-2013, 06:35 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
You're spot on with that comment. But, they seem to be approaching this as a scope problem with a scope solution; which I approve of.
I get upset when a scope problem is solved with a small pay increase. A union should never "sell" jobs.
I view this Narita dust up like a divorced couple who are arguing over alimony when they suddenly see their kid about to get hit by a car. They forget their disagreement and run out in the road to grab the kid, working together to minimize harm. That's kind of where we are. An economic truck is aimed right for one of our children.
I get upset when a scope problem is solved with a small pay increase. A union should never "sell" jobs.
I view this Narita dust up like a divorced couple who are arguing over alimony when they suddenly see their kid about to get hit by a car. They forget their disagreement and run out in the road to grab the kid, working together to minimize harm. That's kind of where we are. An economic truck is aimed right for one of our children.
But I find myself asking why we are always faced with giving up jobs.
Is there a fundamental long term problem here that "scope" can't solve?
Is it no longer profitable for Delta Air Lines to fly passengers in airplanes?
Is outsourcing all of our flying really management's ultimate goal?
Regarding the economic truck, I would alter the scenario somewhat.
The truck is about to drive off with a bag of money. Management wants us to jump out in front of it along with them to try and stop it. But then they get to keep all the money.
06-11-2013, 07:09 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
Did you see the new international terminal they completed in HND, the 4th runway, which adds 110,000 additional flight segments/yr, the 75,000 sq m international terminal expansion that can accomodate 5,000,000 additional international passengers per year by 2014, the Government of Japan's commitment to expand HND international flight segments from 30,000/yr to 60,000/yr?
06-11-2013, 07:10 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Good post.
But I find myself asking why we are always faced with giving up jobs.
Is there a fundamental long term problem here that "scope" can't solve?
Is it no longer profitable for Delta Air Lines to fly passengers in airplanes?
Is outsourcing all of our flying really management's ultimate goal?
But I find myself asking why we are always faced with giving up jobs.
Is there a fundamental long term problem here that "scope" can't solve?
Is it no longer profitable for Delta Air Lines to fly passengers in airplanes?
Is outsourcing all of our flying really management's ultimate goal?
Scope is our legal right to Delta flying. It is always an issue because it is the foundation of our bargaining leverage. Scope is the first section of our contract because without scope, none of the rest of the contract can be enforced.
(I know you know that ... just giving a sermon to the readers who might be new)
06-11-2013, 07:18 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Que music from "Devil went down to Georgia"
Fire in the Gate House Run boys Run
Fire in the Gate House Run boys Run
Concourse D at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport was evacuated after an explosion Tuesday morning, but has since reopened, reports CBS Atlanta.
Atlanta Fire Rescue spokeswoman Janet Ward says the incident briefly shut down power to part of the airport.
The explosion happened in a maintenance shed around 8:40 a.m.
Airport officials said it was a small electrical explosion near Gate D 21 at a ramp level maintenance shop.
There were no reported injuries, and there was no fire.
Passengers on the northside of Concourse D were evacuated to Concourse E, but have since been able to return to Concourse D.
There is still partial power outage in certain areas of Concourse D.
The cause of this explosion is currently under investigation.
Delta Air Lines spokesman Morgan Durrant said the airline is working with airport officials and others involved to determine the impact to Delta operations.
Though Atlanta is major Delta hub, the airline has only a handful of gates in Concourse D.
Durrant said at 10 a.m. Tuesday that Delta didn't know yet whether it would need to delay or cancel any flights, but would take those measures only as a last resort.
Atlanta Fire Rescue spokeswoman Janet Ward says the incident briefly shut down power to part of the airport.
The explosion happened in a maintenance shed around 8:40 a.m.
Airport officials said it was a small electrical explosion near Gate D 21 at a ramp level maintenance shop.
There were no reported injuries, and there was no fire.
Passengers on the northside of Concourse D were evacuated to Concourse E, but have since been able to return to Concourse D.
There is still partial power outage in certain areas of Concourse D.
The cause of this explosion is currently under investigation.
Delta Air Lines spokesman Morgan Durrant said the airline is working with airport officials and others involved to determine the impact to Delta operations.
Though Atlanta is major Delta hub, the airline has only a handful of gates in Concourse D.
Durrant said at 10 a.m. Tuesday that Delta didn't know yet whether it would need to delay or cancel any flights, but would take those measures only as a last resort.
06-11-2013, 07:35 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
06-11-2013, 09:23 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: 737 Left
Posts: 1,827
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