80ktsClamp

Yeah, and Ferd and his sissy cats can shove it and go fly the F-16 or whatever.

Denny Crane

I've looked and have not been able to find that guarantee (unfortunately).

I agree, the precedent is not good.

Hopefully we are in a "scope recovery" mode and will whittle it down more/improve the ratio in contract 2015. 7 years is a long time. We'll have to see what happens.....

I think we both want to get to the same place, I just don't think I see as many bogeymen between where we are and want to be as you do!

Denny

80ktsClamp

I wouldn't say that I'm seeing bogeymen... I'm saying it is a major issue and conflict of interest when another pilot group (with their hand held by the ALPA national chair) goes and negotiates with our employer for guaranteed flying.

Ferd149

I got your sissy cat

An Arizona boy needs an Arizona cat........or at least I wish my homeowner's association would let me have one. Well, that and I guess it would be up in the air on if I would show up to fly each week



PS how do ya shrink this thing?? Sorry...........I hate guys who post oversized pictures

Bucking Bar

The changes to the Delta Pilot Working Agreement were additions which amended Sections 1 D 12 and 1 D 11. ALPA's Administrative Manual, Section 40, Part 5, directs a best effort be made to secure first right of interview for displaced ALPA members. The Delta PWA honored this Admin Manual directive. The Pinnacle pilots modified our contract to favor their most senior employed Captains first. By doing so they unfairly diminished the interview rights of other ALPA members. Also, we typically negotiate flown down language to provide additional job security for Delta pilots, should we be furloughed. These bilateral provisions are absent.

Bucking Bar

You can edit it until you find an appropriate sized pic.

Denny's getting a sermon.

Bucking Bar

Denny,

It is a huge difference. We obviously do not control management.

ALPA, OUR UNION, authorizes pilot bargaining. ALPA is an exclusive agent. Exclusive means ONE. ALPA speaks for Pinnacle just as it speaks for Delta (or any other represented pilot group).

In the past ALPA would not empower an express pilot group to sit down at the table with another airline's management and negotiate a contract which controls that airline's flying.

The Delta pilots PERMIT some flying to be done off the Delta list. This flying remains Delta flying.

ALPA is trying to create a precedent by which PERMITTED FLYING can be traded to another pilot group. ALPA is doing this by trying to redefine Delta flying to just that flying which we perform. ALPA has mostly sold our MEC on the idea that flying we permit to be performed elsewhere is no longer Delta flying. Unfortunately, our MEC keeps went to ALPA National Attorneys for legal opinions on the behavior of ALPA National. Of course these attorneys created legal reasoning which justified the actions of the name at the upper left corner of their paychecks (metaphorically speaking).

ALPA's sale of our permitted flying was bought with concessions. Other pilots are now being pushed into concessions to compete.

The reason for ALPA's change is to facilitate the sale of one member's job to benefit another member. This is the opposite of unity. It is the opposite of what a union should do.

So you may ask, "Why should I care?"

The reason you should care is because once a separate, lower, standard is established, how do we negotiate better (pick an issue - rest / crew meals / bidding / time off / reserve rules / safety ) when ALPA has accepted the lower standard on the Delta property with a group of pilots performing Delta flying?

When Dave Behncke founded our union the cornerstone of his approach was "when one member has a problem, we all have a problem." Unsafe scheduling was unsafe scheduling no matter where it occurred. He fought for a single, improved, standard for our profession.

Bucking Bar

Exactly .

Bucking Bar

Good sentiment. The tragedy is that ALPA has so dumbed down the basics fundamentals of trade unionism that it is nearly impossible to mount any sort of democratic reforms because the rank and file don't really see any problem with what their leadership is doing.

For more than ten years I have believed that if the facts were laid out for everyone to see, reforms would follow, or at least folks would appreciate what was actually going on. But that has not been the case.

I'll have to come back to this later when I have more time.

Denny Crane

Okay, show me the before and after language for these 2 sections. Actually, I have a electronic copy that I don't think I've updated for quite awhile. The current live contract on the DALPA website still reads exactly the same as my old one. Help an old guy (well not that old!). Where are the changes to the DPWA that were NOT negotiated with DALPA located?

Now, if you are saying that, within the Pinnacle contract the Pinnacle pilots negotiated with Delta to interview their most senior Captains first, well okay. I don't see that as a violation of the DPWA. A flow thru would require a negotiation with DALPA.

As has been said by many here, DALPA does not hire pilots, management
does.

Denny