Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-09-2013, 10:35 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: bartender
Posts: 295
DPA is amazed to learn that, once again, ALPA is not interested in enforcing existing scope language. Not only is Delta out of compliance in the Atlantic (AF/KLM JV), but now Delta is also out of compliance in the Pacific. Instead of enforcing existing language, ALPA has granted relief, costing all of us jobs and progression.
ALPA is not interested in representing the Delta Pilot group any longer as is evidenced by their inaction. Poorly crafted scope language is already allowing Delta to operate at least 9 daily round trip A330 flights across the Atlantic LESS THAN REQUIRED without penalty. Now we learn that Delta plans to operate 28 daily flights in the Pacific LESS THAN REQUIRED and without penalty and ALPA is okay with it.
How many wide-body jobs are gone as a result of ALPA's refusal to craft or enforce any meaningful JV scope language? When will Delta Pilots realize that ALPA is incapable of properly representing us?
I find it simply amazing that I find out more abou what the company is doing from an organization that is trying to become our representation rather than the one we have ALPA. Where is the outrage with our current unions inaction on the information above on regards to international scope?
ALPA is not interested in representing the Delta Pilot group any longer as is evidenced by their inaction. Poorly crafted scope language is already allowing Delta to operate at least 9 daily round trip A330 flights across the Atlantic LESS THAN REQUIRED without penalty. Now we learn that Delta plans to operate 28 daily flights in the Pacific LESS THAN REQUIRED and without penalty and ALPA is okay with it.
How many wide-body jobs are gone as a result of ALPA's refusal to craft or enforce any meaningful JV scope language? When will Delta Pilots realize that ALPA is incapable of properly representing us?
I find it simply amazing that I find out more abou what the company is doing from an organization that is trying to become our representation rather than the one we have ALPA. Where is the outrage with our current unions inaction on the information above on regards to international scope?
06-09-2013, 10:43 AM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
DPA is amazed to learn that, once again, ALPA is not interested in enforcing existing scope language. Not only is Delta out of compliance in the Atlantic (AF/KLM JV), but now Delta is also out of compliance in the Pacific. Instead of enforcing existing language, ALPA has granted relief, costing all of us jobs and progression.
ALPA is not interested in representing the Delta Pilot group any longer as is evidenced by their inaction. Poorly crafted scope language is already allowing Delta to operate at least 9 daily round trip A330 flights across the Atlantic LESS THAN REQUIRED without penalty. Now we learn that Delta plans to operate 28 daily flights in the Pacific LESS THAN REQUIRED and without penalty and ALPA is okay with it.
How many wide-body jobs are gone as a result of ALPA's refusal to craft or enforce any meaningful JV scope language? When will Delta Pilots realize that ALPA is incapable of properly representing us?
I find it simply amazing that I find out more abou what the company is doing from an organization that is trying to become our representation rather than the one we have ALPA. Where is the outrage with our current unions inaction on the information above on regards to international scope?
ALPA is not interested in representing the Delta Pilot group any longer as is evidenced by their inaction. Poorly crafted scope language is already allowing Delta to operate at least 9 daily round trip A330 flights across the Atlantic LESS THAN REQUIRED without penalty. Now we learn that Delta plans to operate 28 daily flights in the Pacific LESS THAN REQUIRED and without penalty and ALPA is okay with it.
How many wide-body jobs are gone as a result of ALPA's refusal to craft or enforce any meaningful JV scope language? When will Delta Pilots realize that ALPA is incapable of properly representing us?
I find it simply amazing that I find out more abou what the company is doing from an organization that is trying to become our representation rather than the one we have ALPA. Where is the outrage with our current unions inaction on the information above on regards to international scope?
/low information pilot
06-09-2013, 10:50 AM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
DPA is amazed to learn that, once again, ALPA is not interested in enforcing existing scope language. Not only is Delta out of compliance in the Atlantic (AF/KLM JV), but now Delta is also out of compliance in the Pacific. Instead of enforcing existing language, ALPA has granted relief, costing all of us jobs and progression.
ALPA is not interested in representing the Delta Pilot group any longer as is evidenced by their inaction. Poorly crafted scope language is already allowing Delta to operate at least 9 daily round trip A330 flights across the Atlantic LESS THAN REQUIRED without penalty. Now we learn that Delta plans to operate 28 daily flights in the Pacific LESS THAN REQUIRED and without penalty and ALPA is okay with it.
How many wide-body jobs are gone as a result of ALPA's refusal to craft or enforce any meaningful JV scope language? When will Delta Pilots realize that ALPA is incapable of properly representing us?
I find it simply amazing that I find out more abou what the company is doing from an organization that is trying to become our representation rather than the one we have ALPA. Where is the outrage with our current unions inaction on the information above on regards to international scope?
ALPA is not interested in representing the Delta Pilot group any longer as is evidenced by their inaction. Poorly crafted scope language is already allowing Delta to operate at least 9 daily round trip A330 flights across the Atlantic LESS THAN REQUIRED without penalty. Now we learn that Delta plans to operate 28 daily flights in the Pacific LESS THAN REQUIRED and without penalty and ALPA is okay with it.
How many wide-body jobs are gone as a result of ALPA's refusal to craft or enforce any meaningful JV scope language? When will Delta Pilots realize that ALPA is incapable of properly representing us?
I find it simply amazing that I find out more abou what the company is doing from an organization that is trying to become our representation rather than the one we have ALPA. Where is the outrage with our current unions inaction on the information above on regards to international scope?
However, as usual, there is a glaring error in there as it is 28 "monthly" flights, not daily. I do appreciate what they are saying, though.
06-09-2013, 10:57 AM
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Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Fair point. If your decision was based on a dispassionate analysis of the numbers, then fear doesn't apply to your decision. But there were many, many DALPA admin types and insiders that flat out stated: "I promise you this is their last offer"..."any next offer will likely be far worse"..."do you really want to let this offer expire and spin the wheel of fortune against the NMB and the RLA?..."we can't show you the results of your survey because"... Now what would you call this Ferd? We have a large group of pilots with wives and children who've stagnated for decades. Do you think all of them are immune from a fear based campaign by our own union?
The campaign of fear was a shameful act by our union. It's the choice of last resort by a leadership that knows they don't have the facts on their side. I wish more pilots could have been as dispassionate as you were, but many pilots simply couldn't. That's not as much their fault as it is the fault of the team who waged the fear campaign.
Carl
The campaign of fear was a shameful act by our union. It's the choice of last resort by a leadership that knows they don't have the facts on their side. I wish more pilots could have been as dispassionate as you were, but many pilots simply couldn't. That's not as much their fault as it is the fault of the team who waged the fear campaign.
Carl
I don't disagree (how do you like that double negative!) that this is what DALPA said. All I can say is that if I had been in on the negotiations and felt like we had gotten all we could and any further negotiation would not result in any improvement and might even be worse, then I might have said the same things. I don't see this as a fear campaign, I see it as guys involved in the process giving their opinions (and we all know what opinions are like). It's up to each individual pilot in the pilot group to sift thru the chaff from both sides and vote it up or down based on their own individual analysis.
Denny
06-09-2013, 11:03 AM
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Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 917
best new line: "FOR FLYING OUT LOUD!"
all i need to know is how quickly can i get it on DVD after seeing it in theaters? If it opens on August 9th, can I have it on the 10th? Otherwise, the 2 year old might actually turn into one of those "kid wanted taco bell and so he got in his parents car and drove there, and hit everything along the way."
all i need to know is how quickly can i get it on DVD after seeing it in theaters? If it opens on August 9th, can I have it on the 10th? Otherwise, the 2 year old might actually turn into one of those "kid wanted taco bell and so he got in his parents car and drove there, and hit everything along the way."
06-09-2013, 11:09 AM
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Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
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How does their scope conflict with ours? How does it subvert (synonyms: overthrow, overturn, demolish, undermine) our scope? We either enforce our scope clause or we don't. That's another discussion.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want them flying large RJ's but what specifically violates our contract?
Denny
06-09-2013, 11:11 AM
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Posts: 8,906
06-09-2013, 11:13 AM
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Joined APC: May 2013
Position: The Parlor
Posts: 1,245
That's not the question '80. The question is, what language changed in the Delta Pilots Working Agreement as a result of the Delta Management/Pinnacle Agreement? As I said, I don't like the precedent set with the Company negotiating with a separate pilots union.
How does their scope conflict with ours? How does it subvert (synonyms: overthrow, overturn, demolish, undermine) our scope? We either enforce our scope clause or we don't. That's another discussion.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want them flying large RJ's but what specifically violates our contract?
Denny
How does their scope conflict with ours? How does it subvert (synonyms: overthrow, overturn, demolish, undermine) our scope? We either enforce our scope clause or we don't. That's another discussion.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want them flying large RJ's but what specifically violates our contract?
Denny
06-09-2013, 11:19 AM
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06-09-2013, 11:26 AM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
This. DL mgmt now has a contract guaranteeing another pilot group DL flying...which was negotiated completely without consulting DALPA.
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