buzzpat

F16Dude, granted. But that takes us back to the DOH versus relative position argument. That's been decided. Its old news. You're not gonna get a lot of sympathy from the senior FDAL guys who lost their retirements (or the junior FDAL guys that lost theirs for that matter). It is what it is. None of us are shot in the arse about this deal but its done. If someone has a case, sue. If not, let's all move on as a team.

nwaf16dude

This argument/debate really doesn't have anything to do with the SLI or DOH/Rel seniority. This is really a Former NWA only issue with the way our last APA is going to be awarded. The order of awards was changed to put displacee's ahead of bidders for this last APA. Sounds like a pretty simple change, but has a pretty significant effect to the former NWA guys. The last thing I want to do is start another SLI debate.

1234

First off, MOU-7 will have absolutely no impact to me personally, however....

From what I am hearing (I don't have the intel sources that you and many others on here do) is that the company is going to absorb the ANC positions by increasing positions in some categories. If there were 100 A330A positions prior to this next APA and after the APA there are 120 positions, that would be 20 positions that should be "awarded" based strictly on seniority (and how the North APA process worked up until the last APA), however, now they are going to be awarded out of seniority due to the anomalies created by the Roberts Award (that thing will never die )

I agree with you that the ANC closure should result in displacements, which would ripple down the list with many, many training cycles being generated. If it was only displacements generated, then the DC9-B (lowest paying position) should in fact increase staffing by however many pilots are being displaced out of ANC.

To me this is a part of the DAL PWA that needs to be addressed. There is no penalty for the company to close a base, since any new position would be "awarded" to someone being displaced out of a base.

alfaromeo

I get it. I still think that there is an excess of drama sometimes. Everyone really isn't out to get you guys.

I think the DAL-N guys should be careful. The company could easily post a small APA this month and then wait and do an advanced entitlement shortly after that. Instead of changing a couple of things like MOU 7, your whole bidding will be done under the south system. More change. You guys might force it on yourselves this time.

CVG767A

I can see that it's having the effect of continuing the inequities of the Roberts award a little longer. What it's preventing, though, is guys like me (a 1987 hire DAL guy) from bidding SEA A330 captain, which I could have (and would have)
done, absent this LOA.

It seems like the intent was to fill the PRIP vacancies with pilots from their respective former airlines. The method of awarding positions to displaced pilots before advancing pilots has been in Delta's contract as long as I've been here, and it's certainly in the contract we now work under.

NWA320pilot

Nope..... If the APA was just done the way they have always been nobody would be able to bid out of seniority. To say that that doing it this way protects PRIP positions is just wrong. You would not be able to bid a SEA330 position because it would not be available it would be filled by the APA.

CVG767A

Now it's my understanding that some of these guys who took the PRIP deal will be kept around until sometime next year. Given that the APA system will be gone by then, and that we'll be under a single certificate as well, what would prevent me from snagging one of those vacated positions?

My intent isn't to infer that change happens, and you need to deal with it. Instead, I'm saying that while some of you may have been screwed by the timing of this change, some of you were helped by it, also. At least this let fNWA guys benefit from the attrition on their side. This MOU may not be perfect, but I think you're better off with it than without it.

Scoop

Question for the North Guys - If I understand this correctly, normally advancements would get filled prior to displacements - is that correct?

If thats the case, and its changed, I can see why some guys would be upset - its a change to the status quo.

However, I don't understand the logic of not letting displacements fill openings first. A guy getting displaced has no choice - it seems reasonable to fill openings with them but whatever happens - I guess this is a good argument for not having 20 year fences.

Scoop

shiznit

80ktsClamp, shouldn't your name now be "80ktsThrustNormal"!!!!

I agree with you.....and Slow, you did apologize once for "how" you commented, but yet we never heard an answer to the things I asked about. (see above)

Seriously, stop being so defensive about the MEC they have done very well in some areas but have been below standard in others, we all know that some people will never be satisfied no matter how much progress is made.

We do deserve to have timely, accurate, and unbiased information with which to try and make decisions, so do us a favor and tell the guy in charge to start getting good information to us quickly and without the "we know all the answers but can't tell you" pump turned on full blast.

**disclaimer, I have had tequila shots tonight.....

Fly4hire

Slow,

Reference this and your previous post you are way off base. The suggestion this is about LEC election posturing is offensive. Targeted email to N-Reps? You mean like they wrote their council Reps. A conspiracy for sure.

The abrogation of seniority is very real. The MOU did modify the TWG agreed to process to potentially harm DAL-N pilots. The argument that TWG agreements were only a "handshake" is preposterous, and even if you use your own argument that we have been under the DAL PWA section 22 since CBAID, you still modified the contract with the MOU because the you are not following section 22 (posting of vacancies). It required an LOA, period.

The utter arrogance to think you did not even need to bounce this off of the elected Reps or the pilots who have been using the previous system for a decade is amazing. Even if the Co. can tweak the staffing and block hours to show there would have been no awards, the process that led us here is fatally flawed.

Y'all screwed up, are too arrogant to admit it and fix it, and no matter how many times you repeat the spin, it's still just that.

I find it especially ironic that while any anonymous postings from APC posted on the DAL WB are lambasted as internet rumors, the MEC is here themselves trying to do damage control.

Oh the web we weave when we first start to deceive....