Originally Posted by Smokey23

Fixed it for you.

(and everyone knows it's a porsch-uh, not a porsh, right?)

Originally Posted by flyallnite

... Oh, to be a Delta pilot in the 1980's! Most of those guys did stagnate at the beginning of their career, but boy did they move up quickly after that! By that time senior captains were pulling down the equivalent of half a million per year in salary alone in today's dollars, while enjoying the insanely feather bedded contract of the time... hardly work! Non rev in first class on your ample time off to anyplace, anytime. Normal staffing on the 727- 5 or 6 cabin crew, stay together for the entire trip. Young, hot, fun and mostly female stews... (weighed at sign in)... what drug testing? Crew cars at the layover... cheap everything everywhere- gas less than a buck, new Cadillac Eldorado 16K, loaf of bread 40 cents... If you were lucky enough to fly international then, when the mighty US Dollar was king, you might as well be on the Grand Tour. What is the TSA? ---All that and hang it up at 60 with a few million lump sum pension and virtually free healthcare. Then nothing to do but polish the corvette and head to the FBO for some fun in the Bonanza, drinks after on the boat at Lake Lanier!

My point- today's stagnated 90's or early 00 hire has seen an enormous loss of pay, benefits, retirement, QOL, and prospects of advancement in this era of code share and ever larger replacement jets. Cost of living in the USA has increased enormously, and we are being taxed to death. If you have kids and you're an FO, chances are your wife is either working or looking for work. You just can't provide the same standard of living that you could 25 years ago. Healthcare costs alone have taken a huge chunk out of take home pay. Most guys are flying a lot more. There is really no comparison to the pilots and contracts of the bygone days in most respects.

Originally Posted by Timbo

That's all true, but the worst part is, it's not over yet. We are still sliding backwards, and now with the New World Order, we are going to have to compete with the Third World. Want to guess what they make?

Pick up a copy of the book: "The World is Hot, Flat and Crowded" by Thomas Friedman. (sp?)

Here's the Reader's Digest version:

India and China -each- have 1.3 BILLION people, all looking to take your job, at 10 cents to your dollar.

In the old days, they didn't have the education and couldn't get education. Now, due to the Internet, they are getting educated, and have the skills, and 10X the manpower. Look at all the manufacturing jobs the USA has already sold to China and India.

It's just beginning, get ready for more jobs to be outsourced in the coming years.

In 20 years our kids will look back at today and say, "Those were the good old days..."

Originally Posted by Wasatch Phantom

I agree that if management finds the lack of hiring has put them in a real bind staffing-wise, they will seek relief from ALPA (and ALPA will likely cave... (again)).

In addition to the two options you listed, another would be giving pilots the option to sell back their summer vacations. There's precedent for that...

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

I think our profession now places too much emphasis on seniority, to the point we have significant "winners" and "losers" among our pilot group; based on nothing more than the day they were hired, relative to the thousand of others. Anyone hired in the "back of the wave" in an individual hiring cycle has a disproportionately lower career earnings potential, and while this was always true to a degree, the length of the post 9/11 lost decade has really amplified the normal effect of this.

But good luck trying to get a majority of pilots to agree with that, and actually formulate changes to mitigate it....

Originally Posted by Timbo

And happy 50th birthday to the Porche 911!

Originally Posted by Smokey23

Fixed it for you.

(and everyone knows it's a porsch-uh, not a porsh, right?)

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

Don't hit the tail now dont hit the pods... this flying thing is hard. I want more money.

Originally Posted by TANSTAAFL

Or they come to ALPA looking for work rule relief. My guess is we'll be approached with:

1) Increased number of short call days further, and/or,
2) Pay banding