Sink r8

Thanks for distilling this down to its' simplest element. There is a difference of some amount of minutes. The question is who you assign it to. There is, logic will tell you, a difference between the time you think push is imminent, and the time you actually push. Past practice didn't penalize the pilots for the difference, now we're going towards technologies/practices that atempt to.

There is an inherent difference between calling for the push, and getting the push. There is also always the chance a push is authorized and cancelled before it's executed. Depending on whether your control the ramp, the FAA controls the ramp, or a competitor controls the ramp, you could be out, but not moving, and especially not moving at greater than three knots.

The company should be able to determine the correct times, just as much of our competition does: subjectively. Or objectively through whatever trigger they choose. Those triggers, or however they chose to take or yield latitude over the years, should affect their numbers, but not be linked to our pay. The company deserves full control over the appplication of the data (they already reserve the right to adjust times, do they not?). We, in turn, deserve our pay to be fair, consistent, and logical. We don't deserve 100% of the difference between out and movement to start being assessed against us. If any % is assessed against us, it should not be done unilaterally.

Personally, I think the most intelligent method would be to use door closure/opening to determine the time where the responsibility shifts to/from the PIC.

I'm not advocating anything other than a discussion with the company. I am not a Captain. If I were, I would follow the procedures to the letter, and that's it. But I'd like my union to be fighting for something better.

Is that weird?

Purple Drank

say what?

forgot to bid

There are 4 times I am guaranteed to be on the same side as Tsquare. When Tennessee plays Alabama. When Tennessee plays Georgia. When we talk politics. When I post this...

forgot to bid

ah, dang. I should've said: "Looks like everyone coming in from behind wants to try it out, everyone in front took one look and said no way, I don't play with that and left."

Avgwhitemale

Jim Cantore is at C45 headed to Manchester. Keep an eye out....

sailingfun

Then the time was incorrect and you fix it with the times monitor. Is is possible that the Captain did not want to set the brakes until the last possible moment and that with the tow in the chocks were put into place ASAP and it never got set again?

sailingfun

Then we should negotiate that in the contract. It was on my last contract survey and will be on my next. There is however nothing to grieve and nothing the union could even consider filing a grievance about.
I take the entire discussion like this. John Doe has been shoplifting from the same store for years. One day he is caught by new video systems and handed over to the police. His argument to the police is he has been stealing from the store for years and its not fair they installed cameras and he should be released and allowed to continue his theft.
I think we should be paid from when the door is closed. Its not however what the contract says.

Herkflyr

I agree. There is a big difference between what the contract says and what a pilot wishes the contract said.

80ktsClamp

I was talking about how you tried to justify your statement via that flight time calculations haven't changed since the 70s. You didn't understand what I was saying. We agree that there is no justification for a grievance on block out changes.

Heck, at one point in the past few years we had planes that blocked out via beacon, brake, or main cabin door closure. I sure liked flying the ones with the MCD trigger. Much more logical.

buzzpat

You should have heard our tango with the MEM approach controller this morning reference the weather. Holy cow. Four runway changes and vectors into the ****. What a cluster. I think we woke him up and he realized there was **** every where. Check out ATC Live at about 1050 z.