Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-10-2013, 10:42 AM
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They were going to keep the nines through the summer of 14. That changed in the last 45 days. They will now be gone around the first of the year. I think once flight ops had a firm look at the block hour program they were able to make a solid case that they could not staff the airline unless they hired. The final choice was sadly to park the nines earlier then the last plan and avoid hiring. This is not good news but does again support that the TA did not cost us a significant number of jobs. If it had they would have easily been able to staff the nines without hiring and keep the nines.
This is what bothers me. It appears that management will do anything to avoid Pilot hiring. And by anything I include:
Joint Ventures
Code-Shares
Alliances
DCI
And sadly (good choice of words), park aircraft are paid for, that apparently marketing wanted to deploy.
I understand that management wants to cut costs and pay off debt but it appears they are really, really against hiring more Pilots. Seems foolish to me when you take into fact that we will probably have to start hiring anyway, so why not do it on DAL terms and have the cream of the crop to pick from?
I guess it would contradict the mantra of "capacity restraint" if DAL were to announce hiring.
Scoop
03-10-2013, 10:44 AM
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Posts: 489
I for example was with a Capt the other day who asked why I had not bid Capt on the 88 after being here for 13 years. I then explained that I was still in the bottom 17% of the list and had approximately 11 years to go until I would break into the top 50% of the list. He actually did not believe me until......
I have had similar experiences. One almost refusal to believe that anybody hired near 12 years ago could still be in the bottom 10% of the seniority list.
we only have 578 retirements between now and 2017
Agree with the rest of that post. You said, more eloquently than I, what myself and others have been saying for some time.
As other's have touched on, I foolishly held hope that this recent MD would stop my continued backward slide. It did the exact opposite.
Bottom line is: if we are not hiring (as in sitting in class, not some predictions followed by excuses) the bottom of the list is not advancing. Displacement to lower paying equipment is not advancement.
All I'm saying is that the pilot group deserves the truth with regards to growth and hiring. Don't give me some RA RA road show when the plan is to fund from with in and displace. The truth would earn much more of my respect.
Last edited by APCLurker; 03-10-2013 at 10:56 AM.
03-10-2013, 11:12 AM
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Posts: 489
shortened quote
Agree as well.
Regarding being a contract year by then: it would not suprise me in the least to see these "rumored" 321's or 744's or any other plane de jour "magically" appearing around the same contract time, making your posted picture even that much more appropriate. Unfortunately, history does not appear to be a teacher to many in the airline industry so the result will be the same.
I think what they've done is just keep it simple, open the 717, drain the 9 and base wide (ATL/DTW/MSP) force folks down to the 717 and just do it all at once.
To try and keep the 9 open for Summer 2014 is risky. Not to mention by the Summer of 2014 given the number of 717s and 9s, you'd need to hire. They can probably cover the capacity loss just fine. So why risk it? Just get rid of the 9 in early 2014.
Which makes no hiring until 2015 seem so much more plausible. Not to mention isn't that a contract year?
To try and keep the 9 open for Summer 2014 is risky. Not to mention by the Summer of 2014 given the number of 717s and 9s, you'd need to hire. They can probably cover the capacity loss just fine. So why risk it? Just get rid of the 9 in early 2014.
Which makes no hiring until 2015 seem so much more plausible. Not to mention isn't that a contract year?
Agree as well.
Regarding being a contract year by then: it would not suprise me in the least to see these "rumored" 321's or 744's or any other plane de jour "magically" appearing around the same contract time, making your posted picture even that much more appropriate. Unfortunately, history does not appear to be a teacher to many in the airline industry so the result will be the same.
03-10-2013, 11:20 AM
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Great post daldude. You did a nice job summarizing the view from our position.
03-10-2013, 11:21 AM
seeing the large hubs...
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03-10-2013, 11:29 AM
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Interesting enough, using the retirement numbers off APC UAL & DAL are almost dead even on scheduled retirements from 2013-2023. UALs are just more spread out, while DAL gets hammered later on.
Also, we are talking scheduled retirements. It's hard to factor how many will make it to 65 yrs of age. The company will likely need to hire early to manage the huge training bubbles.
03-10-2013, 11:35 AM
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03-10-2013, 11:36 AM
Sho me da money!
Joined APC: Feb 2007
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Fig,
What blows my mind is not W2, but take home pay. My cash flow is within $600 per pay period of what I earned in 1988 (while still in college). The mid month check as a commuter turboprop captain remains larger than it's Delta equivalent, ten years later. Of course the end of the month check is significantly larger at Delta, offset by the cost of benefits and taxes which are larger during the mid month period.
Don't know if the regional LCA still make what they used to earn, but under the Delta contract post bankruptcy and theirs, a regional LCA out earned his equivalent at Delta by $20K to as much as $100K if they really hustled.
Useless information ... but interesting just for it's lack of volatility in a very volatile industry.
What blows my mind is not W2, but take home pay. My cash flow is within $600 per pay period of what I earned in 1988 (while still in college). The mid month check as a commuter turboprop captain remains larger than it's Delta equivalent, ten years later. Of course the end of the month check is significantly larger at Delta, offset by the cost of benefits and taxes which are larger during the mid month period.
Don't know if the regional LCA still make what they used to earn, but under the Delta contract post bankruptcy and theirs, a regional LCA out earned his equivalent at Delta by $20K to as much as $100K if they really hustled.
Useless information ... but interesting just for it's lack of volatility in a very volatile industry.
FWIW, my 2006 W2 was $134/k as an LCA all on a CRJ200. I am not even close to that yet half way through year 5 at DL. Of course I am happy and would rather be here, but like a lot of people on this board it just gets old (and one gets older) being patient. I did vote for the TA because it capped RJ seats and RJ pilots flying DAL passengers. (IMHO 50 seats v. 76 seats is hard for some to accept) Short term is a drain but I am still hopeful that things will break free and when they do I am hoping that being on the front part of the 2007 wave will pay off!
03-10-2013, 11:41 AM
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shortened quote
Agree as well.
Regarding being a contract year by then: it would not suprise me in the least to see these "rumored" 321's or 744's or any other plane de jour "magically" appearing around the same contract time, making your posted picture even that much more appropriate. Unfortunately, history does not appear to be a teacher to many in the airline industry so the result will be the same.
Agree as well.
Regarding being a contract year by then: it would not suprise me in the least to see these "rumored" 321's or 744's or any other plane de jour "magically" appearing around the same contract time, making your posted picture even that much more appropriate. Unfortunately, history does not appear to be a teacher to many in the airline industry so the result will be the same.
for a pay raise and time value of money we'll trade staffing for jets the company has already bought. If Carl's jets wouldn't show up until 2014 then I suspect we open up early negotiations this time next year. Same premise. It'll be interesting to see how many "okay, just this one time increase in jumbo RJs/decrease in staffing but never again" are willing to do it again?
03-10-2013, 11:46 AM
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Anyone up for DCI capped at 395 jets total... but all of them jumbo RJs?
How about with a pay raise, a few work rule changes and 11 used 744s?
How about with a pay raise, a few work rule changes and 11 used 744s?
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