Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-09-2013, 09:20 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
22.D.3 Required Pilot Staffing Forecast:
March 2014 (vs. Current Bid)
10491 Pilots
4768 Captains
5723 FOs
May 2013
10510 Pilots (+19)
4789 Captains (+17)
5721 FOs (-02)
March 2013
10459 Pilots (-32)
4709 Captains (-59)
5750 FOs (+32)
October 2012
10604 Pilots (+113)
4847 Captains (+59)
5757 FOs (+34
November 2012
10596 Pilots (+105)
4852 Captains (+84)
5744 FOs (+21)
March 2012
10689 Pilots (+198)
4912 Captains (+144)
5777 FOs (+54)
BTW, statistically speaking hiring seems to be linked to DAL stock trading above $12/share....
Cheers
George
P.S.: PM sent to Shiz with past 22D3 reports
March 2014 (vs. Current Bid)
10491 Pilots
4768 Captains
5723 FOs
May 2013
10510 Pilots (+19)
4789 Captains (+17)
5721 FOs (-02)
March 2013
10459 Pilots (-32)
4709 Captains (-59)
5750 FOs (+32)
October 2012
10604 Pilots (+113)
4847 Captains (+59)
5757 FOs (+34
November 2012
10596 Pilots (+105)
4852 Captains (+84)
5744 FOs (+21)
March 2012
10689 Pilots (+198)
4912 Captains (+144)
5777 FOs (+54)
BTW, statistically speaking hiring seems to be linked to DAL stock trading above $12/share....
Cheers
George
P.S.: PM sent to Shiz with past 22D3 reports
Last edited by georgetg; 03-09-2013 at 09:31 AM.
03-09-2013, 10:31 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
Called for my tax report from Flight Crew Solutions on Thursday and got the report in my email the next day.
For the AE I will have a VD to the NYC 7ER off the ATL88 at a %. Ready to try some new type of flying.
For the AE I will have a VD to the NYC 7ER off the ATL88 at a %. Ready to try some new type of flying.
03-09-2013, 10:41 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,572
51 senior to low 6300s for 717A
03-09-2013, 10:42 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Moved up to the M88 from the 767
Posts: 193
Just hop on over to the -9 sim, they're still part of the visual!
03-09-2013, 10:45 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
22.D.3 Required Pilot Staffing Forecast:
March 2014 (vs. Current Bid)
10491 Pilots
4768 Captains
5723 FOs
May 2013
10510 Pilots (+19)
4789 Captains (+17)
5721 FOs (-02)
March 2013
10459 Pilots (-32)
4709 Captains (-59)
5750 FOs (+32)
October 2012
10604 Pilots (+113)
4847 Captains (+59)
5757 FOs (+34
November 2012
10596 Pilots (+105)
4852 Captains (+84)
5744 FOs (+21)
March 2012
10689 Pilots (+198)
4912 Captains (+144)
5777 FOs (+54)
BTW, statistically speaking hiring seems to be linked to DAL stock trading above $12/share....
Cheers
George
P.S.: PM sent to Shiz with past 22D3 reports
March 2014 (vs. Current Bid)
10491 Pilots
4768 Captains
5723 FOs
May 2013
10510 Pilots (+19)
4789 Captains (+17)
5721 FOs (-02)
March 2013
10459 Pilots (-32)
4709 Captains (-59)
5750 FOs (+32)
October 2012
10604 Pilots (+113)
4847 Captains (+59)
5757 FOs (+34
November 2012
10596 Pilots (+105)
4852 Captains (+84)
5744 FOs (+21)
March 2012
10689 Pilots (+198)
4912 Captains (+144)
5777 FOs (+54)
BTW, statistically speaking hiring seems to be linked to DAL stock trading above $12/share....
Cheers
George
P.S.: PM sent to Shiz with past 22D3 reports
So basically down 2% in pilots, down 3% in Captains and 1% in First Officers. The fleet over that time period has gone from 714 jets to 722 back down to 717++!
So let me stretch here and try to come up with a win announcement on this... standby...
This AE is the first opportunity the pilots have to bid on the new Boeing 717s which are a key part to our continued growth and development in the Atlanta market.
Overall we are adding 355 Captains and 314 First Officers in this bid to help prepare us for the 88 new 717s, the 100 new Boeing 737-900s and the 65 newly acquired MD-90s.
The biggest winner in the new AE is of course Atlanta with 98 new Captains and 18 new First Officers being added. Detroit is also a big winner with 20 new Captain positions and 18 new First Officer positions in the 777/747! Our LAX and New York bases our also major winners as is Seattle with 5 more 7ER positions and SLC with 5 more 737 Captain positions. Our Minneapolis hub will also see an opportunity for 27 Captains and 50 First Officers, 5.5% of the total MSP pilot group, to experience our growth from one of our other major hubs. We also expect to be able to correct some misalignment in pilot staffing, most notably the number of pilots with less than 10 years of service who are flying wide-body airplanes. We expect to eliminate that completely in Atlanta and hopefully soon at our other bases.
We understand of course some pilots may be concerned about our new growth. That is happening too fast and that we will be unable to staff the airline properly leading to the proper use of reserve pilots and potentially increasing the number of financially crippling green slips. We assure you that we have a plan to handle this. First we will move pilots from airplanes they do not want to fly like the Airbus and Douglas aircraft to airplanes they do want to fly which are those made by Boeing, albeit in Long Beach. By accommodating the 3% and 4% of 320 and M88 pilots who would prefer to move to the Boeing 717, we believe that many of the concerns of keyboard warriors will be dispelled.
But if you continue to have concerns feel free to continue massive white slipping and of course feel free to contact your local representative or make a motion in person at the next MEC meeting, all of whom have nothing to do with the AE at this point.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 03-09-2013 at 10:56 AM.
03-09-2013, 10:58 AM
meh
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 828
.. If the contract had in fact cost us thousands of jobs or even hundreds of jobs this bid would have had a massive net displacement. Instead it has a net positive numbers of AE's and is substantially positive for Captains which is what moves people to the left seat. They have already put out that this bid clears the surplus copilots and follow on bids this year are expected to be almost all AE's. I call that good news.
P.S. We were supposed to retire a bunch of 757's during the next year. At least one for one with 737-900's coming on the property. Combine that with the massive loss of jobs from work rule concessions posted on here you would have expected 200 to 300 Captains to be displaced from the aircraft. Instead we added 3 Captains net on the767. How do you explain that?
P.S. We were supposed to retire a bunch of 757's during the next year. At least one for one with 737-900's coming on the property. Combine that with the massive loss of jobs from work rule concessions posted on here you would have expected 200 to 300 Captains to be displaced from the aircraft. Instead we added 3 Captains net on the767. How do you explain that?
WRONG. It WAS bad, and we ARE seeing hundreds of bad things-- you just spin it like they don't exist. What we are seeing is the evaporation of the hiring that would have been required. This is exactly like Safety work... just because there are no visible plane crashes, doesn't mean something huge didn't happen safety wise. What we are seeing is :
1. No hiring, when the company would have been required to hire.
2. Small amount of narrowbody capt spots funded from displaced widebody, when they would have been funded from FOs moving UP instead of wide Capts moving down.
3. Small amount of total vacancies, when they would have required hundreds more instead.
4. Some possible advancement for some in top 50%, who've already been sitting at the top of this pyramid scheme 5 years longer than anyone was ever supposed to, when it was deemed an acceptable pyramid of inequity... ZERO advancement for those at the bottom of the pyramid, who've been sitting there for 14 years or so now.
Here's something sinkr8 or gloopy would write to explain it:
You're like a rich cattleman, looking at a turd a coyote just laid and say, "Well hey, this is nowhere near as smelly and large as it could have been! And very soon this coyote says he'll stop cr pping altogether He's going vegetarian! And come on, he can't really eat my cows!" We look at the same turd as poor land-croppers who can only aspire to owning poultry and say, "Yeah, but that wolf ate all my chickens and rabbits!"
And I guess I should defuse your standard attack/response by saying I love working for Delta, I love coming to work, I have several alternate plans and income sources, I want the best for the airline and investors, I don't want to quit and work somewhere else and shouldn't have to just because I speak up when I see someone twisting truth into a palatable lie, I'm 99% enthused about everything Delta is doing and the other 1% is probably good for the owners, I wear my hat and coat and actually like them a bit, I do everything I can to make folks fly Delta just like you do...
I just disagree on the pilot-count results of the TA. That's it. I don't even necessarily disagree on whether something better was even possible! I'm smart enough to recognize medicine and when I need it... but it absolutely irks me when someone tries to tell me the fish-oil they're feeding me is candy, and my taste-buds are lying to me.
03-09-2013, 10:59 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Captain Jack
Posts: 1,003
Left seat 727 at 9 years for me, but plenty of 9/11 displacement, pay cuts, and stagnation for this deadzoner since. I'm still having a blast; I like coming to work; I like the people I fly with; and this company is being managed better than anytime in my career. I'm positive about the future. Sue me for being positive. It's a better way to live - imo.
Are there legit gripes? Absolutely. Is DALPA perfect? Not even close. I am however, still very happy to be here. Want to cry about an unfair world? Feel free. I'm not going to join in or commiserate. I will hand you a tissue though.
Flt Ops is still fighting to begin hiring this year. When hiring starts the spigot will stay open for a decade. Very possible 321's w/330's on the way. Economy actually showing signs of life. Company estimating only 25% to 30% stay to 65. Signs of DAL life on West Coast. If only a 1/3d of what RA is planning happens, we are in for a rocket ship ride over the next 15yrs.
Are there legit gripes? Absolutely. Is DALPA perfect? Not even close. I am however, still very happy to be here. Want to cry about an unfair world? Feel free. I'm not going to join in or commiserate. I will hand you a tissue though.
Flt Ops is still fighting to begin hiring this year. When hiring starts the spigot will stay open for a decade. Very possible 321's w/330's on the way. Economy actually showing signs of life. Company estimating only 25% to 30% stay to 65. Signs of DAL life on West Coast. If only a 1/3d of what RA is planning happens, we are in for a rocket ship ride over the next 15yrs.
03-09-2013, 11:03 AM
meh
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 828
03-09-2013, 11:07 AM
Doing Nothing
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,316
Bogus analysis. You always spin it the same way, as if instantly the rise and fall of inventory of planes and pilots doesn't exist-- "If it was so bad, we would instantly on this AE see hundreds of displacements!"
WRONG. It WAS bad, and we ARE seeing hundreds of bad things-- you just spin it like they don't exist. What we are seeing is the evaporation of the hiring that would have been required. This is exactly like Safety work... just because there are no visible plane crashes, doesn't mean something huge didn't happen safety wise. What we are seeing is :
1. No hiring, when the company would have been required to hire.
2. Small amount of narrowbody capt spots funded from displaced widebody, when they would have been funded from FOs moving UP instead of wide Capts moving down.
3. Small amount of total vacancies, when they would have required hundreds more instead.
4. Some possible advancement for some in top 50%, who've already been sitting at the top of this pyramid scheme 5 years longer than anyone was ever supposed to, when it was deemed an acceptable pyramid of inequity... ZERO advancement for those at the bottom of the pyramid, who've been sitting there for 14 years or so now.
Here's something sinkr8 or gloopy would write to explain it:
You're like a rich cattleman, looking at a turd a coyote just laid and say, "Well hey, this is nowhere near as smelly and large as it could have been! And very soon this coyote says he'll stop cr pping altogether He's going vegetarian! And come on, he can't really eat my cows!" We look at the same turd as poor land-croppers who can only aspire to owning poultry and say, "Yeah, but that wolf ate all my chickens and rabbits!"
And I guess I should defuse your standard attack/response by saying I love working for Delta, I love coming to work, I have several alternate plans and income sources, I want the best for the airline and investors, I don't want to quit and work somewhere else and shouldn't have to just because I speak up when I see someone twisting truth into a palatable lie, I'm 99% enthused about everything Delta is doing and the other 1% is probably good for the owners, I wear my hat and coat and actually like them a bit, I do everything I can to make folks fly Delta just like you do...
I just disagree on the pilot-count results of the TA. That's it. I don't even necessarily disagree on whether something better was even possible! I'm smart enough to recognize medicine and when I need it... but it absolutely irks me when someone tries to tell me the fish-oil they're feeding me is candy, and my taste-buds are lying to me.
WRONG. It WAS bad, and we ARE seeing hundreds of bad things-- you just spin it like they don't exist. What we are seeing is the evaporation of the hiring that would have been required. This is exactly like Safety work... just because there are no visible plane crashes, doesn't mean something huge didn't happen safety wise. What we are seeing is :
1. No hiring, when the company would have been required to hire.
2. Small amount of narrowbody capt spots funded from displaced widebody, when they would have been funded from FOs moving UP instead of wide Capts moving down.
3. Small amount of total vacancies, when they would have required hundreds more instead.
4. Some possible advancement for some in top 50%, who've already been sitting at the top of this pyramid scheme 5 years longer than anyone was ever supposed to, when it was deemed an acceptable pyramid of inequity... ZERO advancement for those at the bottom of the pyramid, who've been sitting there for 14 years or so now.
Here's something sinkr8 or gloopy would write to explain it:
You're like a rich cattleman, looking at a turd a coyote just laid and say, "Well hey, this is nowhere near as smelly and large as it could have been! And very soon this coyote says he'll stop cr pping altogether He's going vegetarian! And come on, he can't really eat my cows!" We look at the same turd as poor land-croppers who can only aspire to owning poultry and say, "Yeah, but that wolf ate all my chickens and rabbits!"
And I guess I should defuse your standard attack/response by saying I love working for Delta, I love coming to work, I have several alternate plans and income sources, I want the best for the airline and investors, I don't want to quit and work somewhere else and shouldn't have to just because I speak up when I see someone twisting truth into a palatable lie, I'm 99% enthused about everything Delta is doing and the other 1% is probably good for the owners, I wear my hat and coat and actually like them a bit, I do everything I can to make folks fly Delta just like you do...
I just disagree on the pilot-count results of the TA. That's it. I don't even necessarily disagree on whether something better was even possible! I'm smart enough to recognize medicine and when I need it... but it absolutely irks me when someone tries to tell me the fish-oil they're feeding me is candy, and my taste-buds are lying to me.
03-09-2013, 11:09 AM
Doing Nothing
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,316
So let me stretch here and try to come up with a win announcement on this... standby...
This AE is the first opportunity the pilots have to bid on the new Boeing 717s which are a key part to our continued growth and development in the Atlanta market.
Overall we are adding 355 Captains and 314 First Officers in this bid to help prepare us for the 88 new 717s, the 100 new Boeing 737-900s and the 65 newly acquired MD-90s.
The biggest winner in the new AE is of course Atlanta with 98 new Captains and 18 new First Officers being added. Detroit is also a big winner with 20 new Captain positions and 18 new First Officer positions in the 777/747! Our LAX and New York bases our also major winners as is Seattle with 5 more 7ER positions and SLC with 5 more 737 Captain positions. Our Minneapolis hub will also see an opportunity for 27 Captains and 50 First Officers, 5.5% of the total MSP pilot group, to experience our growth from one of our other major hubs. We also expect to be able to correct some misalignment in pilot staffing, most notably the number of pilots with less than 10 years of service who are flying wide-body airplanes. We expect to eliminate that completely in Atlanta and hopefully soon at our other bases.
We understand of course some pilots may be concerned about our new growth. That is happening too fast and that we will be unable to staff the airline properly leading to the proper use of reserve pilots and potentially increasing the number of financially crippling green slips. We assure you that we have a plan to handle this. First we will move pilots from airplanes they do not want to fly like the Airbus and Douglas aircraft to airplanes they do want to fly which are those made by Boeing, albeit in Long Beach. By accommodating the 3% and 4% of 320 and M88 pilots who would prefer to move to the Boeing 717, we believe that many of the concerns of keyboard warriors will be dispelled.
But if you continue to have concerns feel free to continue massive white slipping and of course feel free to contact your local representative or make a motion in person at the next MEC meeting, all of whom have nothing to do with the AE at this point.
This AE is the first opportunity the pilots have to bid on the new Boeing 717s which are a key part to our continued growth and development in the Atlanta market.
Overall we are adding 355 Captains and 314 First Officers in this bid to help prepare us for the 88 new 717s, the 100 new Boeing 737-900s and the 65 newly acquired MD-90s.
The biggest winner in the new AE is of course Atlanta with 98 new Captains and 18 new First Officers being added. Detroit is also a big winner with 20 new Captain positions and 18 new First Officer positions in the 777/747! Our LAX and New York bases our also major winners as is Seattle with 5 more 7ER positions and SLC with 5 more 737 Captain positions. Our Minneapolis hub will also see an opportunity for 27 Captains and 50 First Officers, 5.5% of the total MSP pilot group, to experience our growth from one of our other major hubs. We also expect to be able to correct some misalignment in pilot staffing, most notably the number of pilots with less than 10 years of service who are flying wide-body airplanes. We expect to eliminate that completely in Atlanta and hopefully soon at our other bases.
We understand of course some pilots may be concerned about our new growth. That is happening too fast and that we will be unable to staff the airline properly leading to the proper use of reserve pilots and potentially increasing the number of financially crippling green slips. We assure you that we have a plan to handle this. First we will move pilots from airplanes they do not want to fly like the Airbus and Douglas aircraft to airplanes they do want to fly which are those made by Boeing, albeit in Long Beach. By accommodating the 3% and 4% of 320 and M88 pilots who would prefer to move to the Boeing 717, we believe that many of the concerns of keyboard warriors will be dispelled.
But if you continue to have concerns feel free to continue massive white slipping and of course feel free to contact your local representative or make a motion in person at the next MEC meeting, all of whom have nothing to do with the AE at this point.
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