Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-14-2009, 05:41 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
Isn't he the guy who signed the 32.5% paycut contract? And isn't he the guy who stood by and watched thousands of guys drain the pension fund until it got so low it went into liquidity shortfall and was later terminated?
08-14-2009, 05:42 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 64
Ala ACL here are some dots I've been thinking about.
1. Moak wants to be Alpa National President
2. To achieve # 1 he needs the RJ pilot vote
3. To achieve # 2 he needs to bring RAH pilots over to Alpa
4. Achieving # 3 (via the National SBC commitee) will push the RJ pilots into the majority of alpa memebership.
5. In return for the RJ pilot vote LM will offer up the 100 seat jet as the merger/ reintegration of DCI flying to Mainline. Makes Mgmt, DCI pilots happy. Presumably mainline pilots will buy off on it if it solidifies the 100 seater at mainline.
6. To achieve #5 consolidation of DCI will have to happen. (It would appear the process has already started per RoughLandings post)
To wit...100 seat flying remains at Mainline....DCI pilots become Delta pilots....LM becomes National Chairman with the blessing of RJ pilots, and sub rosa suppport from Mgmt. QED
They're just dots. Connect or deconstruct at will.
G
1. Moak wants to be Alpa National President
2. To achieve # 1 he needs the RJ pilot vote
3. To achieve # 2 he needs to bring RAH pilots over to Alpa
4. Achieving # 3 (via the National SBC commitee) will push the RJ pilots into the majority of alpa memebership.
5. In return for the RJ pilot vote LM will offer up the 100 seat jet as the merger/ reintegration of DCI flying to Mainline. Makes Mgmt, DCI pilots happy. Presumably mainline pilots will buy off on it if it solidifies the 100 seater at mainline.
6. To achieve #5 consolidation of DCI will have to happen. (It would appear the process has already started per RoughLandings post)
To wit...100 seat flying remains at Mainline....DCI pilots become Delta pilots....LM becomes National Chairman with the blessing of RJ pilots, and sub rosa suppport from Mgmt. QED
They're just dots. Connect or deconstruct at will.
G
Fact is that Lee will need support for this group as well if he would do what you propose, so we can not be completely thrown under the bus.
If they want a bi-lateral flow with all DCI carriers, make it simple make them all Delta pilots and bring them to the list. While they are at it, make small jet inclusive like they have done with the JV TA. It appears that they are finally getting it.
If the end game is that DCI pilots get a number at the big game and the DCI is brought back to mainline, we once again have a chance at untiy and true strength in numbers.
08-14-2009, 06:04 PM
Banned
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Posts: 1,317
08-14-2009, 06:12 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Anybody can pander.
Compare where we're at with any other mainline legacy carrier. Wanna trade?
I'll take the results ALPA has produced at Delta during the last 4 years over anybody similarly situated. All the chest thumping and pandering some other so called labor leaders have done has produced....
zip. nothing. nada.
Except injunctions. Terminations. Litigation.
Our situation sucked being mismanaged into bankruptcy. Out of it we got a better contract than anybody else that went through bankruptcy and just under $2 billion in cash paid to south pilots. The merger gave us 49 million shares of Delta stock, a voting board seat, and nearly 20% in pay restoration plus 3% additional DC. We've got zero involuntary furloughs. Oh, even with good management the company is making lousy margins, yet they're still working with us collaboratively.
Chicken Little screams the sky is falling over scope. The outsourced fleet will be down from 800 airplanes to 600 airplanes over 2 years. As of September 1, there will be over 600 DCI pilots on furlough (CMR, MAH, ASA, Mesa), with more to come.
The Delta MEC represents Compass pilots as well(no furloughs). Moak goes to their crew room, and a single poster misrepresents what was said, in both tone and context. This forum then piles on. I can see how the Salem witch trials got started...
It's easy to pander, much harder to lead. It's easy to chest thump and self flagellate. It's much harder to produce results.
Compare where we're at with any other mainline legacy carrier. Wanna trade?
I'll take the results ALPA has produced at Delta during the last 4 years over anybody similarly situated. All the chest thumping and pandering some other so called labor leaders have done has produced....
zip. nothing. nada.
Except injunctions. Terminations. Litigation.
Our situation sucked being mismanaged into bankruptcy. Out of it we got a better contract than anybody else that went through bankruptcy and just under $2 billion in cash paid to south pilots. The merger gave us 49 million shares of Delta stock, a voting board seat, and nearly 20% in pay restoration plus 3% additional DC. We've got zero involuntary furloughs. Oh, even with good management the company is making lousy margins, yet they're still working with us collaboratively.
Chicken Little screams the sky is falling over scope. The outsourced fleet will be down from 800 airplanes to 600 airplanes over 2 years. As of September 1, there will be over 600 DCI pilots on furlough (CMR, MAH, ASA, Mesa), with more to come.
The Delta MEC represents Compass pilots as well(no furloughs). Moak goes to their crew room, and a single poster misrepresents what was said, in both tone and context. This forum then piles on. I can see how the Salem witch trials got started...
It's easy to pander, much harder to lead. It's easy to chest thump and self flagellate. It's much harder to produce results.
Last edited by slowplay; 08-14-2009 at 06:53 PM.
08-14-2009, 06:29 PM
Moderator
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Posts: 13,088
08-14-2009, 06:30 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Anybody can pander.
Compare where we're at with any other mainline legacy carrier. Wanna trade?
I'll take the results ALPA has produced at Delta during the last 4 years over anybody similarly situated. All the chest thumping and pandering some other so called labor leaders have done has produced....
zip. nothing. nada.
Except injunctions. Terminations. Litigation.
Our situation sucked being mismanaged into bankruptcy. Out of it we got a better contract than anybody else that went through bankruptcy and just under $2 billion in cash paid to south pilots. The merger gave us 49 million shares of Delta stock, a voting board seat, and nearly 20% in pay restoration plus 3% additional DC. We've got zero involuntary furloughs. Oh, even with good management the company is making lousy margins, yet they're still working with us collaboratively.
Chicken Little screams the sky is falling over scope. The outsourced fleet will be down from 800 airplanes to 600 airplanes over 2 years. As of September 1, there will be over 600 DCI pilots on furlough (CMR, MAH, ASA, Mesa), with more to come.
The Delta MEC represents Compass pilots as well(no furloughs). Moak goes to their crew room, and the same chicken littles that claim to be scope hawks misrepresent what was said, in both tone and context. I can see how the Salem witch trials got started...
It's easy to pander, much harder to lead. It's easy to chest thump and self flagellate. It's much harder to produce results.
Compare where we're at with any other mainline legacy carrier. Wanna trade?
I'll take the results ALPA has produced at Delta during the last 4 years over anybody similarly situated. All the chest thumping and pandering some other so called labor leaders have done has produced....
zip. nothing. nada.
Except injunctions. Terminations. Litigation.
Our situation sucked being mismanaged into bankruptcy. Out of it we got a better contract than anybody else that went through bankruptcy and just under $2 billion in cash paid to south pilots. The merger gave us 49 million shares of Delta stock, a voting board seat, and nearly 20% in pay restoration plus 3% additional DC. We've got zero involuntary furloughs. Oh, even with good management the company is making lousy margins, yet they're still working with us collaboratively.
Chicken Little screams the sky is falling over scope. The outsourced fleet will be down from 800 airplanes to 600 airplanes over 2 years. As of September 1, there will be over 600 DCI pilots on furlough (CMR, MAH, ASA, Mesa), with more to come.
The Delta MEC represents Compass pilots as well(no furloughs). Moak goes to their crew room, and the same chicken littles that claim to be scope hawks misrepresent what was said, in both tone and context. I can see how the Salem witch trials got started...
It's easy to pander, much harder to lead. It's easy to chest thump and self flagellate. It's much harder to produce results.
There has been really great things done by the MEC and I completely agree with the "facts" in your post.....I'd like to have you explain the "tone and context" of Moak's comments so that we can get this thread moving in the right direction again.
I continue to support the MEC and its Chairman in the upcoming battles but we do not have a clear picture from our reps of what our strategy is going to be going forward (mostly WRT scope considerations, though honestly I have been very pleased with the codifying in our sec. 1 of the new JV and the little pieces that have added up to 40 months of furlough protection.)
All some of these guys want is recognition that recapture of scope is being addressed, or is being studied, or at least acknowledged that it is an issue that should be looked into. So far all the DAL pilots have heard is crickets.
08-14-2009, 06:30 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
ALPA had nothing to do with DCI shrinking. It was simply the economics of the 50 seaters.
I will be writing my rep in regards to what Lee was quoted as saying. Absolutely rediculous.
Oh and by the way, last I checked, Chicken Little did end up being right in the end...
08-14-2009, 06:32 PM
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
08-14-2009, 06:34 PM
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Posts: 13,088
Not a fan of the bolded section, you are too much of a stand up guy to be calling names...stay above the fray, your words are important to the members.
There has been really great things done by the MEC and I completely agree with the "facts" in your post.....I'd like to have you explain the "tone and context" of Moak's comments so that we can get this thread moving in the right direction again.
I continue to support the MEC and its Chairman in the upcoming battles but we do not have a clear picture from our reps of what our strategy is going to be going forward (mostly WRT scope considerations, though honestly I have been very pleased with the codifying in our sec. 1 of the new JV and the little pieces that have added up to 40 months of furlough protection.)
All some of these guys want is recognition that recapture of scope is being addressed, or is being studied, or at least acknowledged that it is an issue that should be looked into. So far all the DAL pilots have heard is crickets.
There has been really great things done by the MEC and I completely agree with the "facts" in your post.....I'd like to have you explain the "tone and context" of Moak's comments so that we can get this thread moving in the right direction again.
I continue to support the MEC and its Chairman in the upcoming battles but we do not have a clear picture from our reps of what our strategy is going to be going forward (mostly WRT scope considerations, though honestly I have been very pleased with the codifying in our sec. 1 of the new JV and the little pieces that have added up to 40 months of furlough protection.)
All some of these guys want is recognition that recapture of scope is being addressed, or is being studied, or at least acknowledged that it is an issue that should be looked into. So far all the DAL pilots have heard is crickets.
ALPA had nothing to do with DCI shrinking. It was simply the economics of the 50 seaters.
I will be writing my rep in regards to what Lee was quoted as saying. Absolutely rediculous.
Oh and by the way, last I checked, Chicken Little did end up being right in the end...
I will be writing my rep in regards to what Lee was quoted as saying. Absolutely rediculous.
Oh and by the way, last I checked, Chicken Little did end up being right in the end...
08-14-2009, 06:35 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
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