80ktsClamp

SJO out of LAX is coming as well.

Moby Dick

Highlighted the important parts for you.

Sure, you're going to skim the cream of the tourist market in ANC, but that's more because of the increasing popularity of Alaska cruises.

However, the high yield business market is solidly in AS's pocket. Our MVPs and frequent flyers aren't interested in "seasonal" service.

And ONE flight to/from LAS? Big deal. We have 10 rts a day in the LAS -SEA/PDX markets. Most of them are on 737-900s.

Believe me, there's no feud brewing between DAL and AS EXCEPT in the imagination of DAL LAX based pilots.

P.S. Check the times of the ANC service. A redeye turn from SEA? That's just finding something to do with an airplane that would otherwise be sitting idle in SEA all night.

However, we appreciate it. Dollars to doughnuts it will fly 1/2 to 2/3rds full. That will make a whole lot of seats available to our ANC commuters to get to and from work. We thank you for that.

Our redeyes are always chock full. CAL used to run a 757 redeye to ANC, too. Again 1/2 to 2/3rds full every night. A boon to commuter pilots everywhere. Smart money says you'll have 4-7 jumpseaters EVERY night. Again, we thank you profusely for adding this level of professional courtesy. You guys rock!

80ktsClamp

The feud rumor is much more rampant outside of the pilots. Guess you forgot we have an SEA base as well...

Wasatch Phantom

FTB,

I realize this is somewhat after the fact, but that was a really well done analysis. Your screen persona is morphing from one known for absolutely hilarious posts, to one capable of that, as well as well thought out and comprehensive critical thought. That was very impressive.

Regarding pricing on Boeing aircraft...

Back in the Leo Mullin days Delta signed a huge order with Boeing. Lots of firm orders and lots of options on several aircraft families. There was flexibility in numbers of aircraft and delivery dates.

Part of that order was a commitment on Delta's part to buy all Boeing aircraft. But there was also contractual language that nobody else got pricing on new aircraft lower than Delta.

When Boeing bought McDonnell-Douglas the EU required Boeing to renounce their sole supplier agreements with Delta (and Continental I believe) to get EU approval for the "merger" with McDonnell-Douglas.

I wonder what the "behind the closed door" status of that low price agreement between Delta and Boeing is?

newKnow

Ok Moby,

It's a fact. Your supporting "because I say so" evidence is very sound. But, isn't southwest airlines usually ranked #1 in customer satisfaction -- and all they serve is peanuts.

Everything considered, you might want to look up what the word subjective means.

Also, I never said anything about pulling the plug on the AS codeshare. I simply asked sailing why he thought what he thought.

Big bravado internet attitudes and jumping to conclusions like that tell me you might be a little insecure. People who are truly in strong positions normally just sit back in amusement and chuckle at the less fortunate.

You don't seem to be amused. In fact, you coming over here to a thread that is dominated by Delta pilots to tell us how much better you are than us and how much we need you is pretty telling.

What's the matter? You a little nervous?

Wasatch Phantom

Moby,

I'm not sure, but I think those routes (PDX-CDG, PDX-AMS) may be subsidized by the city of Portland...

slowplay

You might want to revisit your financials before you make statements about "need."

Alaska has had a great run code-sharing with everybody under the sun. It has driven your financial performance to the top of the industry. But take away either the Delta or American code-share (and with the AMR/LCC merger something will change) and your numbers don't look so pretty. In fact, they look pretty pedestrian. While significant in SEA and PDX, AAG's total revenue contribution to DAL is along the lines of a small DCI carrier; DAL and AMR passenger traffic is a significant component of AAG's revenue and current profitability.

I wish you guys well. You run a good airline. But as things change in the next couple of years I hope you don't find out who really needs who.

Moby Dick

Not at all. As I've said (and DAL management reflects), you need us WAY more than we need you. Putting a couple domestic flights into SEA doesn't bother us a bit.

What I see here (Bros before Eskimos) is a bunch of pilots wishing that the codeshare would collapse and DAL would be forced to replace it with your iron and your pilots.

Guess what? It ain't happening in the foreseeable future. DAL management KNOWS that to make your Pacific service work, YOU need West Coast feed. And why would you try to establish that service when you can get it via codeshare? It doesn't make economic sense.

That ship sailed for DAL when you bought Western and gutted the West Coast service in favor of your East/West system. That's how Alaska got a foothold on the West Coast in the first place.

If I were you, I'd get used to seeing the green tracks on your magazine route map. They aren't going away any time soon.

Moby Dick

Now THAT'S funny!

Wasatch Phantom

I don't know what's funny about it...

The city of Pittsburg subsidized Delta's PIT-CDG service. Delta's PIT - CDG flight draws full $5M subsidy

I believe Salt Lake City similarly subsidized SLC-CDG service.

Here's an article on PDX subsidizing Delta's PDX-NRT flight:


Millman, Joel
Wall Street Journal

Air Hubs Pay to Keep Their Spokes - WSJ.com

PORTLAND, Ore. -- Portland is one of a handful of cities willing to pay big bucks to keep it connected with the rest of the world.

Port officials in Portland, Ore., say direct Tokyo flights generate $61.2 million in annual economic impact to the region.
The city's port authority voted this week to make a one-time cash payment of $3.5 million to Delta Air Lines Inc. to maintain the city's only direct link to Asia, a daily nonstop flight to Tokyo that the carrier had planned to terminate in September.

Deutsche Lufthansa AG confirmed this week that it would end its Portland-Frankfurt route in September because it wasn't profitable, leaving Delta's nonstop to Amsterdam as Portland's sole direct link to Europe. Last year Portland lost its only scheduled nonstop service to Latin America, a Mexicana Airlines flight to Guadalajara.

Smaller cities are ramping up subsidies to keep airlines from cutting routes as a stiff recession sends air traffic tumbling. "Airports are desperate," said Brian Busey, co-leader of the aviation practice at the law firm Morrison Foerster LLP in Washington.

Incentive programs have become increasingly common in recent years as airports and communities recruit carriers to fly routes that wouldn't otherwise be profitable. A longstanding federal program also provides funding to connect small cities by air.

But the Portland pact with Delta points to a new trend in which airports are giving away money to simply retain airline routes rather than recruit new ones. The direct payment also departs from typical deals that waive landing fees, share in marketing expenses or provide revenue guarantees.

Peter Kirsch, a partner at Kaplan Kirsch & Rockwell LLP in Denver, said his law firm is advising "several" U.S. airports on possible retention deals with airlines on domestic and international routes. Portland's pact extends Delta's Tokyo service until May.

In lobbying for the deal, Port of Portland officials said direct Tokyo flights generate $61.2 million in annual economic impacts to the region, helping local companies more effectively compete in the global marketplace.

David Zielke, Port of Portland's manager for air services, told port commissioners the pact would allow Portland to continue being the country's smallest city with both trans-Pacific and trans-Atlantic air links. The city has about 575,000 residents, with a metro-area population of more than two million.

Recession-battered airlines are expected to post $9 billion in losses globally this year, including a $1 billion loss among North American airlines, according to the International Air Transport Association. Passenger revenue globally and in the U.S. fell about 30% in May from a year earlier.

Airlines are continuing to scale back flights to trim losses. Seat capacity has shrunk by more than 5% since last year. But midsize airports have suffered a particularly steep falloff in international passenger traffic. Scheduled cross-border flights at such U.S. airports -- including Portland's -- are down 25% this month from a year earlier, according to the Airports Council International-North America, an umbrella group for airports.

Major airlines' traffic through Portland declined nearly 6% last year to less than 10 million passengers, said Bill Wyatt, executive director of the Port of Portland. Through the first six months of 2009, traffic was down 13% from a year earlier, he said.

Tucson International Airport in Arizona is weighing an incentive program to try to restart cross-border flights. Despite its name, the airport hasn't had any international routes since Aeromexico stopped flying to Hermosillo, Mexico, in September.

Myrtle Beach International Airport also doesn't have any international flights, but it hopes to attract some new cross-border routes through an incentive program that was renewed last month and offers steep fee discounts. Allegiant Air launched domestic service to the South Carolina beach resort this spring after accepting such incentives.

Pittsburgh International Airport inked a pact with Delta in February to launch service to Paris -- the city's first direct European link in several years. To attract Delta, the airport authority agreed to waive landing fees for two years and kick in $300,000 in marketing funds. A local economic-development group provided revenue guarantees.

Such incentives are "especially important given the current economic recession," said Deborah McElroy, a vice president of policy in Washington at Airports Council International, the industry group.

To pass muster with the Federal Aviation Authority, Portland wasn't allowed to use airport revenue to pay Delta. The money will come from general funds of the Port of Portland. It also would have to offer the same financial support to any other carrier that wants to offer the service.