Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-23-2013, 10:58 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
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Uhhh huuhhh. Drool drool. Uuuhhhhhh
2013 sports illustrated swimsuit in HD on the travel channel.....
KATE UPTON : OFFICIAL WEBSITE
2013 sports illustrated swimsuit in HD on the travel channel.....
KATE UPTON : OFFICIAL WEBSITE
02-23-2013, 10:58 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 115
02-23-2013, 12:36 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
02-23-2013, 01:52 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
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02-23-2013, 03:19 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 93
Ask what State they are current and legal to practice law in. You may be very surprised by the answer you get ... .
Would our employers pay us to fly if we did not bother completing our continuing education requirements to maintain licensure?
Should a non-member consultant, giving legal opinions without a license to do so, have more of a voice than the membership of a union who pays the dues? Should an ALPA National consultant participate as the primary arbitor of a local political body?
Not stating anything; just asking relevant questions about basic governance. It would seem there is more than a little irony in Alpharomeo's concept of "discipline."
Would our employers pay us to fly if we did not bother completing our continuing education requirements to maintain licensure?
Should a non-member consultant, giving legal opinions without a license to do so, have more of a voice than the membership of a union who pays the dues? Should an ALPA National consultant participate as the primary arbitor of a local political body?
Not stating anything; just asking relevant questions about basic governance. It would seem there is more than a little irony in Alpharomeo's concept of "discipline."
Aside from the issue at hand, you'd prefer a new attorney's advice that just passed the bar exam, and was a Delta pilot, over someone with decades of experience? Does that make sense?
If you want to attack the advice, have at it. But you've made an illogical argument to try to make your case.
02-23-2013, 04:36 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2007
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02-23-2013, 04:41 PM
Back on TDY
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Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Padre,
What is illogical about expecting a professional to maintain their certification as is required under regulation? My understanding is that some who are providing legal advice have not met the minimum standard to continue practicing. You don't think this tells us something? Would an airline employ you or I if we failed to bother completing the certification requirements of our profession?
... and yes, I believe there are many more qualified choices. For one, to actually do anything ALPA would have to hire someone else who could advocate in a public forum.
Since you dug this hole, I will tell you what is at the bottom of it. "Our attorney" is not ours, nor is he a member of the Bar. While I'm no expert on Bar rules, a common language reading of the rule suggests that it is inappropriate that he practice law without a license to do so. So what is he? Why does he earn as much as two of our most senior Captains, combined?
Obviously the answer is politics. Such a person would be an ALPA National Political Officer. He admittedly has a greater voice than the dues paying members of our union. He is able to stop the democratic process and able to sidetrack the proper governance of our association.
We need to be smart. The fact that we have "attorneys" who's power is limited to the King's ear should tell you something about their role, as well as the advice they provide. Such counsel is a man practicing politics, not law. His opinions are political opinions, not a legal opinions.
You and I elect the politicians we want to represent us. Our voice should not be silenced by a non member political consultant.
------
Disclaimer: Nothing in this post has anything to do with any one specific person or group. It is a theoretical discussion of something that may, or may not, have happened. The Delta MEC can accept advice from anyone they want and that person can get paid whatever they can get paid. Who knows, they might even suggest a lawsuit or Section VIII against me ... and oh how I would welcome a hearing board.
What is illogical about expecting a professional to maintain their certification as is required under regulation? My understanding is that some who are providing legal advice have not met the minimum standard to continue practicing. You don't think this tells us something? Would an airline employ you or I if we failed to bother completing the certification requirements of our profession?
... and yes, I believe there are many more qualified choices. For one, to actually do anything ALPA would have to hire someone else who could advocate in a public forum.
Since you dug this hole, I will tell you what is at the bottom of it. "Our attorney" is not ours, nor is he a member of the Bar. While I'm no expert on Bar rules, a common language reading of the rule suggests that it is inappropriate that he practice law without a license to do so. So what is he? Why does he earn as much as two of our most senior Captains, combined?
Obviously the answer is politics. Such a person would be an ALPA National Political Officer. He admittedly has a greater voice than the dues paying members of our union. He is able to stop the democratic process and able to sidetrack the proper governance of our association.
We need to be smart. The fact that we have "attorneys" who's power is limited to the King's ear should tell you something about their role, as well as the advice they provide. Such counsel is a man practicing politics, not law. His opinions are political opinions, not a legal opinions.
You and I elect the politicians we want to represent us. Our voice should not be silenced by a non member political consultant.
------
Disclaimer: Nothing in this post has anything to do with any one specific person or group. It is a theoretical discussion of something that may, or may not, have happened. The Delta MEC can accept advice from anyone they want and that person can get paid whatever they can get paid. Who knows, they might even suggest a lawsuit or Section VIII against me ... and oh how I would welcome a hearing board.
Carl
02-23-2013, 04:52 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,014
There's a pretty good food fight going on over on the Cargo forum. It concerns the firing of 5 FDX HKG-based pilots for alleged non-compliance with a signed LOA.
Here's my question: Based on 2ND HAND info, I was told that Alpa lawyers, met with FDX legal and some of the involved crewmembers. The Alpa lawyers told the crewdogs that they were there to represent the association, NOT the affected crewmembers.
I don't know how accurate this account is, but does not Alpa have a DFR to their individual members in these instances ? ( wrongful termination) If not, why are we paying dues ??
Thanks,
BG
Here's my question: Based on 2ND HAND info, I was told that Alpa lawyers, met with FDX legal and some of the involved crewmembers. The Alpa lawyers told the crewdogs that they were there to represent the association, NOT the affected crewmembers.
I don't know how accurate this account is, but does not Alpa have a DFR to their individual members in these instances ? ( wrongful termination) If not, why are we paying dues ??
Thanks,
BG
ALPA attorneys do work for ALPA. ALPA is their client and pilots are ALPA members.
Where things get tricky is when there is a conflict of interest.
Outside of ALPA (in the real world) the standard is quite a bit different than we employ in our union. Insurers often hire attorneys to represent insured parties. Obviously the insurer's money is on the line, but the attorney will hasten to state that they represent their client first, NOT the insurer.
Conflicts of interest can occur. For instance, what if the settlement amount is much larger than the amount of the insurance policy? In such an event separate counsel is hired for the insurer's interest and the Court may even be asked to intervene before the damages case goes forward in the fashion of an interpleader or declaratory judgement.
DFR standards for ALPA are much lower than the standard of good faith expected from deep pocket insurers. However, I would be more comfortable if ALPA would make a "pilot first" policy of representing pilots first.
What if an MEC had a question about national's actions? Can a ALPA national attorney really advise them without a conflict of interest? What if management really wanted a pilot fired and offered something of value to the membership for a guy's job?
I had always believed ALPA had effective internal mechanism for handling it's conflict of interests until I saw these mechanisms completely sidetracked and my MEC marginalized.
ALPA is our best choice for representation. I'm not suggesting we replace ALPA, but we do need to move the focus of our association to the pilots that it represents. We need to put "pilots first."
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 02-23-2013 at 05:17 PM.
02-23-2013, 04:59 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 5-9 block, kill removing
Posts: 385
Padre,
What is illogical about expecting a professional to maintain their certification as is required under regulation? My understanding is that some who are providing legal advice have not met the minimum standard to continue practicing. You don't think this tells us something? Would an airline employ you or I if we failed to bother completing the certification requirements of our profession?
... and yes, I believe there are many more qualified choices. For one, to actually do anything ALPA would have to hire someone else who could advocate in a public forum.
Since you dug this hole, I will tell you what is at the bottom of it. "Our attorney" is not ours, nor is he a member of the Bar. While I'm no expert on Bar rules, a common language reading of the rule suggests that it is inappropriate that he practice law without a license to do so. So what is he? Why does he earn as much as two of our most senior Captains, combined?
Obviously the answer is politics. Such a person would be an ALPA National Political Officer. He admittedly has a greater voice than the dues paying members of our union. He is able to stop the democratic process and able to sidetrack the proper governance of our association.
We need to be smart. The fact that we have "attorneys" who's power is limited to the King's ear should tell you something about their role, as well as the advice they provide. Such counsel is a man practicing politics, not law. His opinions are political opinions, not a legal opinions.
You and I elect the politicians we want to represent us. Our voice should not be silenced by a non member political consultant.
------
Disclaimer: Nothing in this post has anything to do with any one specific person or group. It is a theoretical discussion of something that may, or may not, have happened. The Delta MEC can accept advice from anyone they want and that person can get paid whatever they can get paid. Who knows, they might even suggest a lawsuit or Section VIII against me ... and oh how I would welcome a hearing board.
What is illogical about expecting a professional to maintain their certification as is required under regulation? My understanding is that some who are providing legal advice have not met the minimum standard to continue practicing. You don't think this tells us something? Would an airline employ you or I if we failed to bother completing the certification requirements of our profession?
... and yes, I believe there are many more qualified choices. For one, to actually do anything ALPA would have to hire someone else who could advocate in a public forum.
Since you dug this hole, I will tell you what is at the bottom of it. "Our attorney" is not ours, nor is he a member of the Bar. While I'm no expert on Bar rules, a common language reading of the rule suggests that it is inappropriate that he practice law without a license to do so. So what is he? Why does he earn as much as two of our most senior Captains, combined?
Obviously the answer is politics. Such a person would be an ALPA National Political Officer. He admittedly has a greater voice than the dues paying members of our union. He is able to stop the democratic process and able to sidetrack the proper governance of our association.
We need to be smart. The fact that we have "attorneys" who's power is limited to the King's ear should tell you something about their role, as well as the advice they provide. Such counsel is a man practicing politics, not law. His opinions are political opinions, not a legal opinions.
You and I elect the politicians we want to represent us. Our voice should not be silenced by a non member political consultant.
------
Disclaimer: Nothing in this post has anything to do with any one specific person or group. It is a theoretical discussion of something that may, or may not, have happened. The Delta MEC can accept advice from anyone they want and that person can get paid whatever they can get paid. Who knows, they might even suggest a lawsuit or Section VIII against me ... and oh how I would welcome a hearing board.
Last edited by johnso29; 02-23-2013 at 05:40 PM.
02-23-2013, 05:06 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl
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