scambo1

GJ;

Just a point of order. I believe the conversation is about medals. What a medal recipient did in a previous assignment has nothing to do with the discussion.

I believe SSGT Sal Giunta's previous assignments included "sandwich artist" at subway. It was what he did in a particular situation in Afghanistan that made him medal worthy.

Wasatch Phantom

GearJerk, et al.

I'll say right up front I've never flown a drone or seen how it's done, I just have my impressions...

That said, I was in the USAF for 8 1/2 years but never flew in combat. I was on probation at DAL when Desert Storm kicked off. I remember sitting in a living room chair absolutely glued to CNN's coverage. The video of the skies over Baghdad was incredible. The night sky was lit up with tracers. They were everywhere. I have incredible respect and admiration for the men who flew through that hell storm and got bombs on-target.

I just can't for the life of me understand how flying a drone can possibly rise to that level. I'm not just using that phrase. I sincerely mean it. I don't get it...

As a military veteran I'm also disturbed by the dumbing-down of ribbons. It strikes me as the military equivalent of the "every child gets a trophy attitude". I can remember not that long ago when you might see some WWI veterans marching in a parade and they'd be dressed in their uniforms wearing all their ribbons...and they'd have three or four. These were men who had fought in combat under hellacious conditions and survived. Their medals were for heroism, bravery, courage, sacrifice, etc.

I also remember a squadron commander of mine telling me to put myself in for such-and-such medal. I wouldn't do it. I had an integrity problem with nominating myself for an award. But I had a squadron buddy go to SOS in-residence and met a C-141 pilot who had a chest full of ribbons. My buddy was incredulous at the awards this guy had, and he specifically asked about one. "That's the Air Force Humanitarian Service Medal". "My buddy asked: What did you do for that?" "We air-dropped hay to farmers whose cattle were starving because of a drought".

And he got a medal for that? Really?

Elliot

Fedelta/Scambo,

They (drone pilots) are, in fact, awarded the air medal. I don't know for sure the award criteria (i.e. 100 sorties flown for one award) but Scambo is correct!!

See, I said it, Scambo is correct. Even a gearJERK can have a good day once in a blue moon!

GJ

Elliot

Scambo,

I agree with everything you stated above. An additional point of order, and one that normally gets me riled up on the forum is when people automatically assume (it's my assumption that people are automatically assuming ) if a person flies drones that it is what they were awarded out of UPT.

For example purposes. There are currently a "handful" of Guard units throughout the U.S. that are flying drones "over the horizon". Each one of these Guard units previously flew F-16's, and due to BRAC realignment, chose (or were told) that they'd trade-in their G-suits for the GCS's. (Ground Control Stations)

I know I'm getting sidetracked, as the discussion first started with the DWM. I agree with everyone elses assessment that a "Distinguished Warfare Medal" SHOULD NOT be placed in the order of awards above the Bronze Star. My position in the argument is that "ALL" military personnel are receiving this medal, (Military Services/Log. Readiness Sqd., Maint. Support) and if we're going to call one particular AFSC "out" on wearing a medal, we better start including all of the AFSC's.

Thanks for your time.

GJ

Bucking Bar

That is an interesting "impression." We just had an MEC meeting where the published "finding" of the MEC Administration went without discussion.

Our Union's President already signed the deal, or our action, if were to even take any, is not particularly meaningful. The corrective language already exists in the C&BL, we just ignored it.

So, what is the fix? Another representative entity? (I'm not advocating it, just asking)

Ferd149

I agree with Gearjerk and Buzz. I was a Cold Warrior who never got shot at and while I did a lot of dangerous stuff flying, I never got a medal for it, and that's OK because I never got shot at.

I have no problem with the drone guys getting the medal that they designed for them, I just think it's ranked way too high. However, I do see it above the AF Commendation Medal and other awards for pushing paper because you are killing people. But, Air Medals? Nawwwwwww, need to get shot at for those IMHO.

Ferd

Elliot

On another note:

What the EF is happening to our (Delta) stock!! AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHH!!! (Did we just recently announce that we were going to have a massive organic expansion and Wall Street is kicking us to the curb? )

GJ

Ferd149

Yup, sure do. Bring that boy over and we'll throw the ball around......let him run the bases

Ferd149

I was going to sell at 12, then 14 then 15 for sure. Guess I'll sell at 12 again

Bucking Bar

Slowplay,

Looking at it from the perspective of creditors; those who owned Next Gen CRJ assets clearly got a different result than those who owned first gen CRJ's. Some airplanes have a different market value and some airplanes were desired by Delta management. Not only did the next gen product not go away; Delta ordered more. They currently represent Delta's second greatest capital expenditure outside of the 737-900 acquisition.

So, outside of resetting the race to the bottom, what was the point of concessions? We knew some pilots were going to lose jobs. We knew it unlikely that all pilots were going to lose jobs.

Concessions kneecapped pilots at other carriers. Lower rates at DCI motivate management to outsource more next gen equipment. Similar bargaining was not authorized at CC Air for exactly the reasons the Pinnacle contract bargaining should not have been authorized.