Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
Right now when you look at our fleet the 88 is around 4.9 crews going lower and the 320 sits around 5.6 and they're talking about displacing people on this next bid. So my bet is that both come down on this next AE which is below the SWA staffing but of course how much of that 6400 number is flying the line?
The 73N and 9 are higher around 7-7.5 but that's also because they're growth categories with more 739s coming and the 9 staffed for issues related to the 717 arriving. The 9 in particular is stated to be overstaffed on purpose, i.e. 7+ crews per jet is over staffing.
I'm not going to touch the ER/767 because of its mission profile but on the 330/777/765/744 we're running about 27 pilots per plane. But the one thing I need to go back and check is that from last August we ran 38 pilots on the 777, now we only run 31? That's over 125 guys removed from that thing. Scambo? Where art thou oh Scambo?
I guess this is my thought, the newly arriving jets could be 100% replacement, they could be growth jets or not even 100% replacements. Only time will tell what they are and I don't care if you're RA or a nobody like me, there is no way to predict the future.
But if they're growth jets, even if just a tad, and we're not hiring, then our pilots per jet will decrease. Thus we are more productive, just like EB said in the earnings call.
And even if we are hiring, I vow to watch the pilots per jet number all the way through to the next contract. We can have pilots coming on board and still decrease that number.
But if they're growth jets, even if just a tad, and we're not hiring, then our pilots per jet will decrease. Thus we are more productive, just like EB said in the earnings call.
And even if we are hiring, I vow to watch the pilots per jet number all the way through to the next contract. We can have pilots coming on board and still decrease that number.
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
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Perhaps you should read my entire post. What convienently ignore is that SWA pilots are more productive. If you want SWA pay, management will want SWA work rules. A SWA pilot contract for Delta pilots will mean less jobs. But you won't admit that even though you know it's true.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Permanently scarred
Posts: 1,707
Perhaps you should read my entire post. What convienently ignore is that SWA pilots are more productive. If you want SWA pay, management will want SWA work rules. A SWA pilot contract for Delta pilots will mean less jobs. But you won't admit that even though you know it's true.
Here's the thing, the 320/73N/89/DC9 will with the 90s be averaging 5.7 crews per jet. Close to Southwest and it should move further down on this next AE.
Now if Delta had as many 777/747 as AA and UAL do, or even half as many as they have on order, that might be something to flaunt... Or even if ALL Delta's widebodies paid that rate, not just 30-some planes.
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Joined APC: Jul 2012
Position: DHC-6 Left
Posts: 31
I found out a long time ago that if you step up and actually do something to improve pilots' lives, rather than just writing about it on a webboard, that you will subject yourself to this type of personal attack. I am so used to it by now that it just rolls off me like water on the windshield.
If you ever decide to get off your butt and actually do something, then you will find out that solutions are never as easy as they seem. It is ironic that the same people that go ballistic on this forum over the "FLY" button on the Delta safety video, then act as if there is a "GET MORE" button at the union office, and the only thing we need to do is push that button and money will flow like the Mississippi in April.
If it were that easy then someone at American, or United, or Continental, or Southwest, or US Airways would have pressed that button a long time ago. Remember American took 6 years and they never found that button, Airtran 7 years, United 3 years, Continental 4 years. Why oh why did they not push that button? Is it just that Carl, and TOGA, and Purple knew where the button was and didn't tell them, or is it because that button does not exist.
I think you can tell that the button does not exist. There is only one thing. Work. Grinding, difficult, stressful work. Of course you don't know that because you have never done it, instead you choose to denigrate those that work on your behalf. But hey, we have a free country so you can say what you want. I just ask all the readers to decide which theory is more plausible; is there some magic button to push or is there just a series of extremely difficult problems to solve and solving them is neither easy nor free of problems. You decide.
The fact is that our deal was the trigger that broke the entire industry out of the bankruptcy era. United followed us. American is directly hanging onto our coattails. US Airways is just along for the ride with American. Without our deal, we are stuck for years and years in stasis.
So launch away with your attacks it makes no difference to me. I know what I did, I know what our team accomplished, I know what it meant to the industry. Almost every negotiator, professional and pilot alike, has expressed their gratitude to the Delta MEC for breaking out of the logjam. I value their opinions over the webboard guys any day.
So I am now much happier that I have peeled off those layers of responsibility layers that affected me both at work and at home for too many years. I feel no remorse because I gave my time, now it is someone else's turn. In the most difficult times I always relied on this quote from Winston Churchill:
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
So I have stumbled, I have fallen short, I have dared and lost, I admit to all those failings. But I was there, fighting the best fight I could and others were sitting on the sidelines carping and crying and complaining. If that makes you feel superior then go ahead. I don't see it that way. I have a camaraderie with those guys that I fought with that will last my lifetime. Those are just as important to me as the monetary gains that we achieved. I only wish for you that you can get off this mountain of bitterness that you have built for yourself and get involved in some positive action to better the lives of those around you. You seem to be a particularly unhappy and bitter person. Your attacks mean nothing to me as you aren't in the arena, you aren't fighting the fight, you are just a brick.
If you ever decide to get off your butt and actually do something, then you will find out that solutions are never as easy as they seem. It is ironic that the same people that go ballistic on this forum over the "FLY" button on the Delta safety video, then act as if there is a "GET MORE" button at the union office, and the only thing we need to do is push that button and money will flow like the Mississippi in April.
If it were that easy then someone at American, or United, or Continental, or Southwest, or US Airways would have pressed that button a long time ago. Remember American took 6 years and they never found that button, Airtran 7 years, United 3 years, Continental 4 years. Why oh why did they not push that button? Is it just that Carl, and TOGA, and Purple knew where the button was and didn't tell them, or is it because that button does not exist.
I think you can tell that the button does not exist. There is only one thing. Work. Grinding, difficult, stressful work. Of course you don't know that because you have never done it, instead you choose to denigrate those that work on your behalf. But hey, we have a free country so you can say what you want. I just ask all the readers to decide which theory is more plausible; is there some magic button to push or is there just a series of extremely difficult problems to solve and solving them is neither easy nor free of problems. You decide.
The fact is that our deal was the trigger that broke the entire industry out of the bankruptcy era. United followed us. American is directly hanging onto our coattails. US Airways is just along for the ride with American. Without our deal, we are stuck for years and years in stasis.
So launch away with your attacks it makes no difference to me. I know what I did, I know what our team accomplished, I know what it meant to the industry. Almost every negotiator, professional and pilot alike, has expressed their gratitude to the Delta MEC for breaking out of the logjam. I value their opinions over the webboard guys any day.
So I am now much happier that I have peeled off those layers of responsibility layers that affected me both at work and at home for too many years. I feel no remorse because I gave my time, now it is someone else's turn. In the most difficult times I always relied on this quote from Winston Churchill:
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
So I have stumbled, I have fallen short, I have dared and lost, I admit to all those failings. But I was there, fighting the best fight I could and others were sitting on the sidelines carping and crying and complaining. If that makes you feel superior then go ahead. I don't see it that way. I have a camaraderie with those guys that I fought with that will last my lifetime. Those are just as important to me as the monetary gains that we achieved. I only wish for you that you can get off this mountain of bitterness that you have built for yourself and get involved in some positive action to better the lives of those around you. You seem to be a particularly unhappy and bitter person. Your attacks mean nothing to me as you aren't in the arena, you aren't fighting the fight, you are just a brick.
Last edited by johnso29; 02-13-2013 at 05:38 AM.
Don't forget 757's/767's are soon to be replaced by 737's further lowering the median Delta pilot wage negating C2012 wage increases paid for by RJ 2.0 and increased productivity.
I hear WN is going to give us the 717's all set up and ready to go.
(notice how much improved the overhead panel is over the 88/9... it's quite different)
(notice how much improved the overhead panel is over the 88/9... it's quite different)
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