Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
Keep this in mind from the NTSB report:
I added 37 for some reason...
Also, there was about 10 seconds from flap handle movement to her saying she had put the flaps up. Anyone know what the time was from flaps down to flaps back up?
Conclusion:
15. Although the reasons the first officer retracted the flaps and suggested raising the gear could
not be determined from the available information, these actions were inconsistent with
company stall recovery procedures and training.
37. Pilots could have a better understanding of an airplane’s flight characteristics during the
post-stall flight regime if realistic, fully developed stall models were incorporated into
simulators that are approved for such training.
38. The inclusion of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration icing video in Colgan
Air’s winter operations training may lead pilots to assume that a tailplane stall might be
possible in the Q400, resulting in negative training.
15. Although the reasons the first officer retracted the flaps and suggested raising the gear could
not be determined from the available information, these actions were inconsistent with
company stall recovery procedures and training.
37. Pilots could have a better understanding of an airplane’s flight characteristics during the
post-stall flight regime if realistic, fully developed stall models were incorporated into
simulators that are approved for such training.
38. The inclusion of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration icing video in Colgan
Air’s winter operations training may lead pilots to assume that a tailplane stall might be
possible in the Q400, resulting in negative training.
I added 37 for some reason...
Also, there was about 10 seconds from flap handle movement to her saying she had put the flaps up. Anyone know what the time was from flaps down to flaps back up?
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
All things being equal:
Fleet . . Pilots . . Ratio
767 . . 12,434 . . 16.21 (merger ratio)
720 . . 11784 . . 16.37 (current ratio)
[email protected] = 12,903 (merger ratio)
[email protected] = 13,030 (current ratio)
The question is, if we are overstaffed with 11,784 pilots and a fleet of 720 jets, what level are we overstaffed by?
The 15 pilots/plane number was bantered about in the 717 fleet discussion. Some fleets might be lower, with augmented crews some fleets are higher, so its's about a wash. At a ratio of 16 pilots/plane you got quite a few guys in training but that's not an unlikely scenario...
Current [email protected] = 11,520 (that would mean we are overstaffed by 264 right now)
Future [email protected] = 12,736 or roughly +1000
Cheers
George
Fleet . . Pilots . . Ratio
767 . . 12,434 . . 16.21 (merger ratio)
720 . . 11784 . . 16.37 (current ratio)
[email protected] = 12,903 (merger ratio)
[email protected] = 13,030 (current ratio)
The question is, if we are overstaffed with 11,784 pilots and a fleet of 720 jets, what level are we overstaffed by?
The 15 pilots/plane number was bantered about in the 717 fleet discussion. Some fleets might be lower, with augmented crews some fleets are higher, so its's about a wash. At a ratio of 16 pilots/plane you got quite a few guys in training but that's not an unlikely scenario...
Current [email protected] = 11,520 (that would mean we are overstaffed by 264 right now)
Future [email protected] = 12,736 or roughly +1000
Cheers
George
So +1500 by the end of the 717 fleet plan...
But by then the ER's will be out of mods and, hopefully, doing more "ER" flying. If the VAtl JVwhatever it is ends up being even a little net positive for us by then. We will be in a position to rule the galaxy.
^^^^^by the way, see what i did there? shuttle? as in Delta Shuttle, implying mainline? giggity.
Plus the FTDT rule changes, plus the huge retirement years starting to crest, and if there is even a couple more weekly TransPac flights per the VAus JVthingy then we could be looking at yet even more.
All in a couple years. If any of this is true we're going to have to start hiring, significant hiring, pretty soon. And ramp up to massive hiring, almost as pretty soon. So...
Yeah, I know.
Wait for it.
Wait for it.
It just seems too good to be true.
Yeah, I know.
But we'll see.
About the same time, the captain called for the
flaps to be set to 15° and for the before landing checklist. The CVR then recorded a sound
similar to flap handle movement, and FDR data showed that the flaps had been selected to 10°.16
FDR data also showed that the airspeed at the time was about 135 knots.
At 2216:27.4, the CVR recorded a sound similar to the stick shaker. (The stick shaker
warns a pilot of an impending wing aerodynamic stall17 through vibrations on the control
column, providing tactile and aural cues.) The CVR also recorded a sound similar to the
autopilot disconnect horn, which repeated until the end of the recording. FDR data showed that,
when the autopilot disengaged, the airplane was at an airspeed of 131 knots. FDR data showed
that the control columns moved aft at 2216:27.8 and that the engine power levers were advanced
to about 70° (rating detent was 80°) 1 second later.18 The CVR then recorded a sound similar to
increased engine power, and FDR data showed that engine power had increased to about 75
percent torque.
FDR data also showed that, while engine power was increasing, the airplane pitched up;
rolled to the left, reaching a roll angle of 45° left wing down; and then rolled to the right. As the
airplane rolled to the right through wings level, the stick pusher activated (about 2216:34), and
flaps 0 was selected. (The Q400 stick pusher applies an airplane-nose-down control column
input to decrease the wing angle-of-attack [AOA] after an aerodynamic stall.) About 2216:37,
the first officer told the captain that she had put the flaps up. FDR data confirmed that the flaps
had begun to retract by 2216:38; at that time, the airplane’s airspeed was about 100 knots. FDR
data also showed that the roll angle reached 105° right wing down before the airplane began to
roll back to the left and the stick pusher activated a second time (about 2216:40). At the time, the
airplane’s pitch angle was -1°.
flaps to be set to 15° and for the before landing checklist. The CVR then recorded a sound
similar to flap handle movement, and FDR data showed that the flaps had been selected to 10°.16
FDR data also showed that the airspeed at the time was about 135 knots.
At 2216:27.4, the CVR recorded a sound similar to the stick shaker. (The stick shaker
warns a pilot of an impending wing aerodynamic stall17 through vibrations on the control
column, providing tactile and aural cues.) The CVR also recorded a sound similar to the
autopilot disconnect horn, which repeated until the end of the recording. FDR data showed that,
when the autopilot disengaged, the airplane was at an airspeed of 131 knots. FDR data showed
that the control columns moved aft at 2216:27.8 and that the engine power levers were advanced
to about 70° (rating detent was 80°) 1 second later.18 The CVR then recorded a sound similar to
increased engine power, and FDR data showed that engine power had increased to about 75
percent torque.
FDR data also showed that, while engine power was increasing, the airplane pitched up;
rolled to the left, reaching a roll angle of 45° left wing down; and then rolled to the right. As the
airplane rolled to the right through wings level, the stick pusher activated (about 2216:34), and
flaps 0 was selected. (The Q400 stick pusher applies an airplane-nose-down control column
input to decrease the wing angle-of-attack [AOA] after an aerodynamic stall.) About 2216:37,
the first officer told the captain that she had put the flaps up. FDR data confirmed that the flaps
had begun to retract by 2216:38; at that time, the airplane’s airspeed was about 100 knots. FDR
data also showed that the roll angle reached 105° right wing down before the airplane began to
roll back to the left and the stick pusher activated a second time (about 2216:40). At the time, the
airplane’s pitch angle was -1°.
hahaha.. gloopy. You'd think they would need to start hiring in advance of said bubble, but we'll already be taking 717s at 3 a month starting in August.
Next year... next bid?
Next year... next bid?
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: Doing what you do, for less.
Posts: 1,792
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Ah, I'll try to 'splain.
He's like inviting this guy to a party:
Buzz Killington - YouTube
Just basically kills the buzz, hence the name.
He's like inviting this guy to a party:
Buzz Killington - YouTube
Just basically kills the buzz, hence the name.
Last edited by johnso29; 01-25-2013 at 02:46 PM.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
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