Rogue24

Gloopy, and Bar you ever think:

From what I have been told from a different point of view:


The fine print in both of theses agreements is the DAL PWA still supersedes them. I have heard the argument wrt to these agreements, that though it is a direct relationship/agreement with Delta Air Lines, Inc, they are only guaranteeing their part of the "permitted flying" as defined under our PWA and if our PWA changes its at Delta's knowledge and concurrence of these documents they signed. Delta would be dutifully bound to our PWA and its new limits. They signed it. What many say is neither of these direct DCI agreements bind Delta to flying other than what is currently permitted and if that changes their agreements are subject to the change. (Permitted flying changes these agreements change)The end cap statement is it does not change "permitted flying" to "excess bargaining" and ultimately not scopeable by another carrier(this will still hold true with all other permitted flying in Section1 as well), meaning we are free to recapture and define permitted flying it at our desire.

Talk to your reps and get their take on what they know. What I posted above is what I am hearing as the answer to your concerns.

80ktsClamp

This is a far cry from SD's sales job on possible hiring in 2012 if we signed the TA:

gloopy

Maybe, but I just don't trust the process, the "federal merger law" and the inevitable lawsuit fallout enough to risk putting our seniority numbers on the line for no real gain. Even the "unity" potential here is eliminated as soon as PCL pilots all become DAL pilots because at that point, management still has the same number of RJ's and large RJ's to outsource.

If a prenup was absolutely iron clad and lawsuit proof, and a 100% staple, and the total number of allowable outsourced airframes was decreased in proportion to the number of PCL pilots coming over, then I could see it. But I really doubt that will happen or even be pursued by either party.

Lifeisgood

Sad news.
I also recall the DALPA touch and go (12-06, 23 June 2012) on Delta staffing with and without the TA.

If we are not hiring until January 2014 Delta will shrink by 757 pilots.
Without TA it would have shrunk by 577.

I sure hope I misinterpreted something, can't wait to get corrected

gloopy

That's a good arguement, but is it strong enough to over come binding arbitration when all the rage is relative integration at least to some degree? DALPA can't risk one single seniority number. Not only that, what is there really to gain by doing this? And how and why is management going to agree? If its done, don't we end up with exactly the same number of allowable outsourced RJ's and large RJ's that can then be flown anywhere?

Mesabah

I think you are putting the cart before the horse though, neither ALPA national or management want us to merge together and recapture small jet scope. This is about getting regional pilots under the ALPA umbrella and making them work for as little as possible. If you ask me, ALPA national is trying to make a power play that its regional partners get exclusive rights to Delta mainline jobs in the future. Imagine if the only way to get a high paying job in this profession is to go through ALPA first, that would be very good for their business. Pinnacle is looking like the pilot project for this.

NuGuy

Heyas Bar,

It was my understanding that the GoJets/TSA decision established a precedent that made this an impossibly high bar to hurdle. Surely they know better.

Nu

Flamer

Please don't tell me you fell for the carrot. No surprises here. The group will fall for it again. People should read more quotes from George Santayana.

FlyZ

Yeah, but 80, so many things have changed since he (pretty much) promised hiring!

- The economy has gone downhill drastically. Well, actually, I guess it's kind of more of a flat hill. Like completely level.

- Life in the military has gotten so bad (by not changing at all) that droves of people have started to come off mil leave...hundreds every day. We have so many people coming off mil leave we can't even find planes to put them in! We may have to flow some of them down to Pinnacle!

- We have so many airplanes unexpectedly going into lie-flat mod...we never could have predicted this before the TA. And like the Bermuda Triangle, or Bangkok, once they go in, they never come back out.

Those are just a few of the changes...there could be more!

BlueMoon

In light of this LOA, I wonder if the Compass guaranteed interview (for non-flow pilots) is an agreement between Compass management and DL or between the MEC and DL. I believe it is an agreement between managements