Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-15-2013, 10:12 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
620 knots ground speed yesterday. Slow for you heavy drivers but not bad for a 737.
01-15-2013, 10:18 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
In the last two bids (since the TA) there have been about 300 pilots move to HIGHER paying positions and 90 pilots move to LOWER paying positions. About 85 Captain upgrades are included in the 300 above. There is some false assumption that the list is moving backwards. The upwards movement is not dramatic but it is patently false that these have been backwards moving bids. Remember these are for the whole group so you may have been displaced.
This next bid will basically replace some FO jobs with 717 and 737 Captain jobs. It will have more pilots going to higher paying positions than lower paying positions or I will donate $100 to the charity of your choice. And yes, upgrading from widebody FO to a 717 Captain is an upgrade, if someone is too snooty or too lazy to fly domestic then screw them. I did it for years and years in the 88 so I have no sympathy. It was a great job with great guys and I had a blast.
This next bid will basically replace some FO jobs with 717 and 737 Captain jobs. It will have more pilots going to higher paying positions than lower paying positions or I will donate $100 to the charity of your choice. And yes, upgrading from widebody FO to a 717 Captain is an upgrade, if someone is too snooty or too lazy to fly domestic then screw them. I did it for years and years in the 88 so I have no sympathy. It was a great job with great guys and I had a blast.
Having flown about 6000 hrs in the 737 of all shapes and sizes I'm good with my choice. However, the 717 does look like a pretty sweet cockpit (compared to the venerable -9 where I become a dog watching tv or maybe a better analogy is a dog watching round dial guages).
Why isn't it just okay to choose to stay on a widebody int'l jet versus bid to domestic without being snooty or lazy? Can't freedom of choice not carry a label?
01-15-2013, 10:23 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,738
01-15-2013, 10:33 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
That's me! By choice. Where's my cognac and breadsticks?
Having flown about 6000 hrs in the 737 of all shapes and sizes I'm good with my choice. However, the 717 does look like a pretty sweet cockpit (compared to the venerable -9 where I become a dog watching tv or maybe a better analogy is a dog watching round dial guages).
Why isn't it just okay to choose to stay on a widebody int'l jet versus bid to domestic without being snooty or lazy? Can't freedom of choice not carry a label?
Having flown about 6000 hrs in the 737 of all shapes and sizes I'm good with my choice. However, the 717 does look like a pretty sweet cockpit (compared to the venerable -9 where I become a dog watching tv or maybe a better analogy is a dog watching round dial guages).
Why isn't it just okay to choose to stay on a widebody int'l jet versus bid to domestic without being snooty or lazy? Can't freedom of choice not carry a label?
01-15-2013, 10:38 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Alfa,
You're incorrect on a very important point.
For those who come from the regionals, it's not a question of getting "high and mighty". We know that the majority of applicants coming up will most likely be found qualified by a fair selection process. We also understand that average qualifications will fluctuate industry-wide, based on supply and demand. But we also know that some of the refuse of the industry hides within. There are people there that under no circumstances should be allowed to fly our passengers, for example the Captain in the ALB accident. We didn't want to fly as their FO's then, and don't want to fly as their Captain in the future. Those people are toxic. For some of them, there is a correlation with having a degree. Some, not all. None of this would be a problem, as long as Delta's hiring process, which found you and I qualified, is used to validate them as well. In other words, it's not a question of origins, but of whether or not the filters are removed.
You're incorrect on a very important point.
For those who come from the regionals, it's not a question of getting "high and mighty". We know that the majority of applicants coming up will most likely be found qualified by a fair selection process. We also understand that average qualifications will fluctuate industry-wide, based on supply and demand. But we also know that some of the refuse of the industry hides within. There are people there that under no circumstances should be allowed to fly our passengers, for example the Captain in the ALB accident. We didn't want to fly as their FO's then, and don't want to fly as their Captain in the future. Those people are toxic. For some of them, there is a correlation with having a degree. Some, not all. None of this would be a problem, as long as Delta's hiring process, which found you and I qualified, is used to validate them as well. In other words, it's not a question of origins, but of whether or not the filters are removed.
01-15-2013, 10:41 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: A big one that looks like a little one
Posts: 633
Before you get all high and mighty, you might want to consider that most of the guys on this forum would not have been hired by Delta when I was hired in 1988 because you weren't in the military. What does that mean? Times change, that's what it means. Before you start thinking that your poop smells like rose water you might want to think twice. I do think that you are wrong with the basis of your post, I believe that all Pinnacle pilots have to meet Delta's hiring standards; standards that management alone dictates.
I find it mildly amusing that the ex-RJ pilots spend so much time ranking on each other. Would you prefer that all these Pinnacle pilots get laid off? What kind of person would not grant a hand up to someone facing the poop sandwich that is coming down to that group? I do think that our profession needs is more pilots crapping on other pilots, that will be good for us.
What my concern is, is that we're going to bypass exceptional applicants in order to interview the PNCL pilots. Which if they're so great - they should have gotten hired - not me. Now - sure - you can say they'll be held to the same standard and they may all fail, but I think we're concerned about complications from selecting a substandard product because we have to. But I haven't seen their resumes so I can only assume they're still at PNCL by choice, not because of rejection. Even though 85% of them saw a massive concessionary agreement as a good enough thing to vote yes on.
I'm sure I'll have some great bridge program FOs someday. But one bad one will sour the image of the whole bunch. What better way to mitigate that issue than by including the opinions of 12000 people who like to number 2 all over themselves.
And if you're that high and mighty to be adamantly against this because they're "RJ pilots" google "two girls one cup".
01-15-2013, 10:44 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
I also give that "huh" look when folks gripe about not being able to move to the left seat when in reality they could hold it for years.
01-15-2013, 10:47 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: A big one that looks like a little one
Posts: 633
Alfa,
You're incorrect on a very important point.
For those who come from the regionals, it's not a question of getting "high and mighty". We know that the majority of applicants coming up will most likely be found qualified by a fair selection process. We also understand that average qualifications will fluctuate industry-wide, based on supply and demand. But we also know that some of the refuse of the industry hides within. There are people there that under no circumstances should be allowed to fly our passengers, for example the Captain in the ALB accident. We didn't want to fly as their FO's then, and don't want to fly as their Captain in the future. Those people are toxic. For some of them, there is a correlation with having a degree. Some, not all. None of this would be a problem, as long as Delta's hiring process, which found you and I qualified, is used to validate them as well. In other words, it's not a question of origins, but of whether or not the filters are removed.
You're incorrect on a very important point.
For those who come from the regionals, it's not a question of getting "high and mighty". We know that the majority of applicants coming up will most likely be found qualified by a fair selection process. We also understand that average qualifications will fluctuate industry-wide, based on supply and demand. But we also know that some of the refuse of the industry hides within. There are people there that under no circumstances should be allowed to fly our passengers, for example the Captain in the ALB accident. We didn't want to fly as their FO's then, and don't want to fly as their Captain in the future. Those people are toxic. For some of them, there is a correlation with having a degree. Some, not all. None of this would be a problem, as long as Delta's hiring process, which found you and I qualified, is used to validate them as well. In other words, it's not a question of origins, but of whether or not the filters are removed.
That's not pooping on anyone, that's suggesting that with a broadened group of applicants, we have no reason to lower our standards, or to be merciful.
01-15-2013, 10:53 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,738
I think some of you guys are making wayyyy too much out of this supposed secret letter flow thing.
Delta just got done with a merger with NWA. So in effect, Delta just 'hired' over 5,000 mainline Capts. and F/O's, none of whom interviewed with Delta, or, if they were interviewed by Delta, they turned Delta down for NW, or vice versa.
And before that merger, there was the Pan Am and Western mergeres and before that, the North East pilots, many, many, many of whom had no college at all.
But somehow, Delta survived.
Yes, there were (and still are) a few oddballs, but Delta hired plenty of them too, with 4 year degrees and Military training, they even got by Dr. Janis. There's always that 5%, right?
Having a College Degree doesn't make you a good person or a good pilot, being a good person does. That's why they interview, and they do a background check, made even easier today with them looking at your Facebook page and training records. I'm sure they will do all the required checks on all flows, college or not.
Delta just got done with a merger with NWA. So in effect, Delta just 'hired' over 5,000 mainline Capts. and F/O's, none of whom interviewed with Delta, or, if they were interviewed by Delta, they turned Delta down for NW, or vice versa.
And before that merger, there was the Pan Am and Western mergeres and before that, the North East pilots, many, many, many of whom had no college at all.
But somehow, Delta survived.
Yes, there were (and still are) a few oddballs, but Delta hired plenty of them too, with 4 year degrees and Military training, they even got by Dr. Janis. There's always that 5%, right?
Having a College Degree doesn't make you a good person or a good pilot, being a good person does. That's why they interview, and they do a background check, made even easier today with them looking at your Facebook page and training records. I'm sure they will do all the required checks on all flows, college or not.
01-15-2013, 10:55 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,038
... Would you prefer that all these Pinnacle pilots get laid off? What kind of person would not grant a hand up to someone facing the poop sandwich that is coming down to that group? I do think that our profession needs is more pilots crapping on other pilots, that will be good for us.
Meanwhile we conveniently ignore the fact Pinnacle exists because we outsource work. Pinnacle got a 25% pay cut in exchange for this "promise" from management to hire Delta pilots.
If a better idea could be submitted; STOP OUTSOURCING ! ( make 'em Delta pilots if you want, but the selling of vague employment rights in exchange for DECREASING wages and working conditions are results our union should be ashamed of )
DISCLAIMER: I use the "royal we" in as much as the Delta MEC was not a participant in this negotiation between Delta management and Delta pilot labor.
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