forgot to bid

My question is, when is the NCAA going to ban Oklahoma from bowl games? The Oklahoma Rule? No matter how good their regular season was, they don't get to go.

Express pilot

Good point. Love talking football with you forgot to bid. Let Auburn play. They looked real good with the number 2 at QB.
Can't wait for a playoff. Then I can be a true NCAA football fan.

80ktsClamp

At the hospital for baby 80! See yall on the other side.

scambo1

So I guess you are a top down ALPA guy vs a bottom up ALPA guy.

scambo1

Biggest day/night of your life, you just dont know it yet.

Bucking Bar

To reasonably consider and act on the matter before them our Reps have to ask for a meeting, preferably an Executive Council, but at least a Special MEC meeting. By convincing our Reps not to meet, ALPA National's attorney(s) are able to prevent action by our Representatives to ensure the Admin Manual, Constitution and Bylaws are complied with.

I ask you to consider where your verification comes from. If it comes from Bill Roberts, who does he represent? He gets paid around $350,000 a year as ALPA National's most senior staff attorney. Everything I hear is that he's a fine gentleman, but he is not our attorney and if asked, I am sure he would tell you the same.

Mr. Robert's legal opinions have not been entirely consistent over the years. I believe his opinions likely reflect the political will of his client. (not questioning his integrity, that's simply the job of an advocate ) In CC Air he reasoned that non compliance with the Administrative Manual, not performing proper economic analysis, undercutting other ALPA groups' pay and negotiating for airplanes they did not fly was reason to recommend ALPA's President not sign the CC Air agreement. At Comair, he interpreted Delta scope broadly, inclusive of all Delta code reasoning that although flying was permitted by the Delta contract, it remained Delta flying.

Now I hear second hand that his opinion of Delta permitted flying has changed. That it is "none of our business" what happens to flying we permit. Further that our scope section really contains a lot of stuff that isn't really scope and that isn't any of our business either, like Section 1 D provisions. It is my hope that his most recent opinion has been broadly misunderstood or misconstrued.

In any event, we need to get to the bottom of how another pilot group walked in the door and did a deal with our management without so much as a courtesy call. The only way we can figure this stuff out is to come together and have the meetings called for in our Constitution and Bylaws.

What I suggest is the opposite of yelling fire in a crowded theater. I am asking our Reps to come together for a detailed explanation of what happened and if we are making a major change to diminish the autonomy of the Delta MEC, then provide guidance to update our policies to reflect this new diminished role in our representational expectations. If we are going to start a new race to the bottom by allowing MEC s to whipsaw each other by turning national into a commodities trading floor, then we need to understand and prepare for the new reality.

It would be lazy of us to conclude this enquiry with "Lee's attorney says what he did is OK, so it must be." We have a higher duty to our Association. ALPA will outlast you, me and President Moak. Politicians come and go, but we must remain forever vigilant that our union is properly administered. It is too valuable a resource to see this issue of autonomy boil over into something which harms the association.

Recall the Pinnacle agreement is highly concessionary. It is in many ways reminiscent of the agreement Mr. Roberts recommended that Duane Woerth not sign.

Bucking Bar

For more detail on Mr. Robert's prior opinions, I will let him speak for himself:

Article XVIII, Section 1 of ALPA's Constitution and By-Laws
(Exhibit 1 hereto) requires the prior approval of ALPA's President before any
pilot group enters into contract negotiations. Article XVIII, Section 1 further
provides that no collective bargaining contract or other agreement can become
effective and binding "unless and until they bear the signature of the President."
8. The ALPA Administrative Manual provides governing policies to
ALPA officials, members and staff on numerous matters as a supplement to the
ALPA Constitution. Section 40 of ALPA's Administrative Manual is titled
"Collective Bargaining" and sets forth the policies of the Association that relate
to that subject and are applicable to all ALPA-represented pilot bargaining units.
A copy of Section 40 is attached hereto as Exhibit 6.
9. Section 40, Part 3, y[ C.3 of the ALFA Administrative Manual
provides that "[p]rior to Presidential signature... agreements... shall be reviewed
by the Representation Department, which shall then make a recommendation
regarding signing to the President based on compliance of the agreement(s) with
ALPA's stated goals and policies concerning collective bargaining." Section 40,
Part 3,111[ C.4-5 provides that a pilot group that disputes a Presidential decision
not to sign an agreement may appeal that decision to the ALPA Executive
Council, composed of all of ALPA's nationally-elected officers, which has
authority to override the President's decision.
10. Article 40, Part 6 of the Administrative Manual provides that a
prerequisite to any concessionary agreement includes, among other things, the
opening of a carrier's books by management for inspection and analysis by the
union, a factual objective review of the company's financial condition and need
for relief, the provision of a detailed economic recovery plan for the company,
and appropriate quid pro quos for the pilots for any economic concessions that
they may provide, including the provision for "snap-back" provisions to restore
the concessions after a date certain or when they are no longer necessary.
11. Shortly after receiving the full language of the proposed tentative
agreement in early May, the ALPA Representation Department, pursuant to its
responsibilities under Article 40, Part 3,'1 C.3 of the ALPA Administrative
Manual, conducted a comprehensive analysis of the proposed agreement. This
analysis involved detailed economic comparisons between the proposed CCAir
amendment and the existing CCAir agreement, as well as a detailed comparison
with the ALPA contract governing the Mesa and Air Midwest pilots. As a result
of this economic analysis, on May 30, 2002, the ALPA Representation
Department sent a detailed memorandum to ALPA President Captain Duane E.
Woerth analyzing the proposed CCAir contract amendment and recommending
that it not be signed. A copy of this May 30 recommendation, with its
accompanying attachments (except for the proposed agreement), is appended
hereto as Exhibit 7.
12. President Woerth has followed the advice that the Representation
Department provided in this May 30 memorandum and has not signed the
proposed April 17, 2002 amendment to the CCAir pilot agreement.

Bucking Bar

A huge congratulations. The road you are about to go down is the best part of life. Kids are the greatest!

80ktsClamp

Thanks! We're nervous but looking forward to it!

Got cut off something awful by Southwest in the alley in MDW today. The WN hate will be strong with 80 jr as well!

Bucking Bar

Then Mr. Roberts on Comair .... Q = Attorney for Comair pilots A = Mr. Roberts
Document was on a public server for approximately 5 years ... it is in the public domain and has been provided to my Reps in its entirety.

---------------------

Q So when you use the term Delta flying, you're referring to flying by Delta Airlines and by wholly owned carriers of Delta?

A Well, I think I'm referring to the flying that's done by or for Delta.

Q By or for Delta Airlines only?

A When you talked about Delta flying, it's flying that's done by or for Delta.

Q So is say Comair flying, flying that you would characterize as Delta flying?

A If it's flying, you know, under the Delta code then it's flying certainly for Delta.
.....

A To my knowledge, all the Comair flying is under the Delta code. That is my understanding. I could be wrong on that, but that is my understanding.

Q So then you're saying that all flying of Comair air crafts, is what you characterize as "Delta flying?"

A No, it's for Delta. It's flying for Delta.

Q Is flying for Delta what you consider Delta flying?

A I think in terms of the comfort it is. In terms of the scope clause, I think that is -- I believe that's how it's defined in the scope clause.

Q So is it your testimony, that the permission to affiliated or wholly owned carriers that appears in the Delta scope clause, is the method by which Comair for example is allowed to fly at all?

A Well, I think -- I think it's the method by which they can fly for Delta.

Q So that if hypothetically during Delta collective bargaining, Delta collective bargaining activity, ALPA on behalf of the Delta pilots were to seek to include a clause that says that only Delta itself, Delta mainline if you will, can fly any air crafts with eight seats or more that would then prohibit Comair flying, would it not?

A First of all you said that ALPA on behalf of Delta. It would be the Delta negotiating team that would be negotiating on behalf of the Delta pilots.

------

So, if Mr. Robert's opinion has changed and permitted flying is no longer "Delta Flying" then I want to know why? What changed? Further, why then was appropriate for the the Delta negotiating team to be involved, but not now?

I think these are reasonable questions. The reply "none of your business" makes me angry. It is our business.