Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-06-2009, 07:55 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
You will not have unity unless you fix scope. The top sold out the bottom (and themselves) for too long. If you want unity, you are going to have to compromise. Compass is a small group of 300 pilots.
Simply put, this would be the first time in my career I ever have lobbied against strike authorization and I will do so because my MEC has been unresponsive to popularly passed resolutions asking for economic analysis of policy change. We are on the wrong track with outsourcing and we need to stop it.
Consider that your pay as been cut hand in hand with outsourcing. The two ARE related. As we outsource more we have less power at the table. The result is the declining trend vector that you see, with lower highs and lower lows.
If you want to fix your problem, you start by fixing our problem.
Simply put, this would be the first time in my career I ever have lobbied against strike authorization and I will do so because my MEC has been unresponsive to popularly passed resolutions asking for economic analysis of policy change. We are on the wrong track with outsourcing and we need to stop it.
Consider that your pay as been cut hand in hand with outsourcing. The two ARE related. As we outsource more we have less power at the table. The result is the declining trend vector that you see, with lower highs and lower lows.
If you want to fix your problem, you start by fixing our problem.
Quite true, and most cannot see that this cray explosion of DCI since 2000 is what caused C2K to be but a dream. DALPA got that contract because DCI did not have the chance to grow before it was inked. Fact is that every pay cut has come with a increase in scoped airframes for third party operators.
These two issues are hand in hand. Pay raises with out the proper changes in section one are a straw man that will fall apart the first time a good wind blows.
08-06-2009, 07:56 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Right hemisphere of DCFranken9's brain
Posts: 238
Not as ignorant as you think. Let's ask the junior NW guys what they think of Compass. Did the senior guys sell the farm to save their DB? How many were furloughed more than once? Sure you can blame it on the company but all issues are give and take. The senior DL guys, IMO, gave much to save as many junior guys as possible and went out of their way to try an support those they couldn't save.
One other rant, for the guys that lost their retirement-why were you counting on it anyway. I think it was the worst thing to happen in my life to see people losing their retirement, however, if I were in that position; I would have never counted on it. Just like I don't count on the government taking care of me when I retire.
08-06-2009, 08:11 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Quite true, and most cannot see that this cray explosion of DCI since 2000 is what caused C2K to be but a dream. DALPA got that contract because DCI did not have the chance to grow before it was inked. Fact is that every pay cut has come with a increase in scoped airframes for third party operators.
These two issues are hand in hand. Pay raises with out the proper changes in section one are a straw man that will fall apart the first time a good wind blows.
These two issues are hand in hand. Pay raises with out the proper changes in section one are a straw man that will fall apart the first time a good wind blows.
08-06-2009, 08:16 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
The difference is INDOC (which I thought had been mostly aligned) and maybe some HR typing on a computer. Management would save money through the destruction of longevity which should more than make up for the HR paperwork and as NWA is finding out, indoc is not that big a deal.
So a 4 week course becomes a 5 week course.
I think the issue is that the flow doesn't work at all because of the small hole you'd have to push every furloughee through. IMHO they'll wait until they have enough in position, then flush harder. As ACL has pointed out, if you see the short bus, the MD88 and DC9 staffed with a 2 to 1 FO to Captain ratio, then they are getting ready to pull the handle.
08-06-2009, 08:27 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Left, left, left right left....
Posts: 911
I couldn't disagree with this more. It is a shameful thing for you to say.
Both Red and Green fought for what they thought was right. Unfortunately, we'll do the same thing here when new airplanes come aboard and folks fight for what they think is a replacement aircraft or not.
Carl
Both Red and Green fought for what they thought was right. Unfortunately, we'll do the same thing here when new airplanes come aboard and folks fight for what they think is a replacement aircraft or not.
Carl
You are correct - there are good and bad in all seniority levels. My antipathy is directed (and I should have limited my comments) towards any officers or their proxies of the previous fNWA MEC trying to reinsert themselves in the process.
08-06-2009, 08:46 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
Not as ignorant as you think. Let's ask the junior NW guys what they think of Compass. Did the senior guys sell the farm to save their DB? How many were furloughed more than once? Sure you can blame it on the company but all issues are give and take. As a relatively junior DL guy, the senior DL guys, IMO, gave much to save as many junior guys as possible and went out of their way to try an support those they couldn't save.
No you are totally clueless on this issue.
08-06-2009, 08:52 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 757 Left
Posts: 1,308
Plenty of friends/former classmates there hired 98-99 time frame is where my info comes from. Let's hear your side of those issues. Why did a DL guy hired in the same timeframe fare so much better through the cutbacks and BK than those guys?
08-06-2009, 08:59 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Not as ignorant as you think. Let's ask the junior NW guys what they think of Compass. Did the senior guys sell the farm to save their DB? How many were furloughed more than once? Sure you can blame it on the company but all issues are give and take. As a relatively junior DL guy, the senior DL guys, IMO, gave much to save as many junior guys as possible and went out of their way to try an support those they couldn't save.
The guys I flew with at ASA were doing the exact same flying they had been doing on the 737 and 727 for about 1/8th the pay and commuting to a new base. DCI hired thousands more pilots than Delta furloughed and Delta Air Lines' block hours increased during the period.
I also observed that Delta could order more RJ's, well beyond the scope limits, then always managed to get the limits moved right before the airplanes showed up. In 2000 Bombardier gave me and my boss the uber VIP treatment at the Paris Air Show thanks to Delta ordering 500+ RJ's at a cost of over ten billion dollars. IMHO that order was a marker for the beginning of the end of C2K.
08-06-2009, 08:59 AM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Not as ignorant as you think. Let's ask the junior NW guys what they think of Compass. Did the senior guys sell the farm to save their DB? How many were furloughed more than once? Sure you can blame it on the company but all issues are give and take. As a relatively junior DL guy, the senior DL guys, IMO, gave much to save as many junior guys as possible and went out of their way to try an support those they couldn't save.
Again, just one example.
Carl
08-06-2009, 09:23 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Embarassing because they bussed them, or embarassing because they bussed them to a DC-9?
Don't worry: that was a rethorical. I've heard the 9 's are fine inside. I know the same cannot be said for JFK terminals 2 & 3. And as for the JFK operation... it's a "Zen" thing: they treat every day like their first day, and their last day.
Don't worry: that was a rethorical. I've heard the 9 's are fine inside. I know the same cannot be said for JFK terminals 2 & 3. And as for the JFK operation... it's a "Zen" thing: they treat every day like their first day, and their last day.
I couldn't agree with you more Johnso. I hate that place because its ALWAYS a Charlie Foxtrot. I was in there about two weeks ago and the ramp got all hot and bothered with us for throwing on some last minute bags after we pushed. He said "well, there's your delay." Like every other thousand times I've been in there we haven't been delayed due to their screwed up operation. DAL management needs to go up there on a weekend, check it out, and start firing some people. Its a joke.
The board was mandated to travel out of JFK after their board meeting a few months ago. The ones that make the decisions had to travel through there and see it first hand. Not biz jet from TEB. They got to experience the birds in the terminals as well.
I can also tell you with decent certainty that they are working on a solution. Hope and pray they get what they are shooting for.
I can also tell you with decent certainty that they are working on a solution. Hope and pray they get what they are shooting for.
J29,
Welcome to our world!!!
I came into JFK one time from EDI in a 757 and parked on the remote pad. Waited quite awhile for the people movers to come out and when they did I was surprised that they actually made it to the deplaning door because of how we were parked relative to other aircraft.
Welcome to our world!!!
I came into JFK one time from EDI in a 757 and parked on the remote pad. Waited quite awhile for the people movers to come out and when they did I was surprised that they actually made it to the deplaning door because of how we were parked relative to other aircraft.Lets be honest, JFK is the seventh level of hell and the only reason you are there is because of sins committed in this or another life. Until you seek penance you will continue to pass through and always be at a hard stand. Or be in luck that your plane is at the gate on time, they board on time, but they don't load bags or fuel until 45 minutes past departure time. I got so fed up with it I had to bid to ATL. JFK is worse than any third world airport I've ever been to and the rhetoric about how we need to be the flagship product in NYC is embarrassing when you have any gate assignment that's prefaced by a Terminal 2 or 3.
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