Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-12-2012, 03:42 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
I think Boomer is a bum. Just sayin'. He should out himself at least by PM to the interested parties.
But I agree with what you said in priciple. I don't want to know who Timbo is...at least not on here.
And that anonymous acl65 where did he come from? Who the H,E, double toothpicks is Buzzpat?
Heck the rest, I don't care about either. You can tell when the MEC guys come on here, but it isn't important to know who they are. In fact, sometimes its more fun to duel with them anonymously. If Slow and Alfa are back on the line, great, but I dont dislike them even though often I disagree with them. Flying Delta jets is a good job with good folks.
Anonymity is good for everyone here.
Except Boomer.
But I agree with what you said in priciple. I don't want to know who Timbo is...at least not on here.
And that anonymous acl65 where did he come from? Who the H,E, double toothpicks is Buzzpat?Heck the rest, I don't care about either. You can tell when the MEC guys come on here, but it isn't important to know who they are. In fact, sometimes its more fun to duel with them anonymously. If Slow and Alfa are back on the line, great, but I dont dislike them even though often I disagree with them. Flying Delta jets is a good job with good folks.
Anonymity is good for everyone here.
Except Boomer.
12-12-2012, 03:53 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Look at Mr. Nu Guy who goes nuclear when I merely post the actual facts about staffing as opposed to "gut feeling." Where are the forum police when that happens? Yeah, nowhere to be found because his point of view conforms to your own. Go back and look at what 80ktsclamp has posted about me and then make a neutral judgement on who plays the attack game. There are way too many guys on here that can dish it out but can't take it.
12-12-2012, 04:10 PM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,728
12-12-2012, 04:12 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 917
Yet the facts don't back up the posts on this forum. You can't compare a airline that had 25 aircraft and now has 43 (HA) with a airline that has 700 aircraft in a growth discussion. Sure there has been some growth at small niche airlines. Virgin has been stagnate for a while. AF is shrinking and going to spin off a bunch of flying to a low cost new airline if they even survive in their current form. The mainline block hours at Delta are almost exactly the same as at the merger despite the posts here. Seniority list numbers are down but the reasons have been explained. Working pilot numbers which is what counts are not down.
Since the merger with NW the economy has been one of the worst overall since the great depression. Show me a airline with operations comparable to Delta that has been in a large growth mode since 2007. Emerates is perhaps the closest example but they are a very different operation from Delta. Every airline in our class has furloughed. We did not.
There is no doubt that there has been stagnation to the extreme. You say its all DALPA's fault and I think its the economy. We are each entitled to our opinions. I tend to be a results oriented person. Since the merger with NW Delta has not furloughed a single pilot. We are one of two US airlines to achieve meaningful improvements in our contract. We will be up over 30 percent in pay over that time period. The next best airline in the industry will be SW up 7 percent. No one else will be up a dime until the UAL contract is ratified. We have made numerous improvements in quality of life in the contract. When I look at results I always compare them to how other subsets are doing. By any measure we have been light years more successful then other comparable airlines.
We just signed a contract that so far is delivering exactly as promised. We are adding pilots, we are adding Captains jobs. For the first time we have meaningful growth. The last two bids added net Captains jobs and the next bid will really have a substantial addition. That will be followed by similar bids for the next several years all based on growth in mainline block hours. At that point retirements kick in with a bang. Not one other US airline has a future looking as bright.
Again everyone is entitled to their opinion. My opinion is that we weathered one of the worst periods in US history for airlines far better then anyone else and are now poised for the growth we all are desperate to see. If the economy turns around the resulting movement could be far better then the eighties boom times.
in 2005 I was planning my new career after Delta shut down. I tend to be a optimist but I could not imagine Delta would be where it is today back then and that was without knowing that the future held a massive economic crash. Again for me its all about results.
Since the merger with NW the economy has been one of the worst overall since the great depression. Show me a airline with operations comparable to Delta that has been in a large growth mode since 2007. Emerates is perhaps the closest example but they are a very different operation from Delta. Every airline in our class has furloughed. We did not.
There is no doubt that there has been stagnation to the extreme. You say its all DALPA's fault and I think its the economy. We are each entitled to our opinions. I tend to be a results oriented person. Since the merger with NW Delta has not furloughed a single pilot. We are one of two US airlines to achieve meaningful improvements in our contract. We will be up over 30 percent in pay over that time period. The next best airline in the industry will be SW up 7 percent. No one else will be up a dime until the UAL contract is ratified. We have made numerous improvements in quality of life in the contract. When I look at results I always compare them to how other subsets are doing. By any measure we have been light years more successful then other comparable airlines.
We just signed a contract that so far is delivering exactly as promised. We are adding pilots, we are adding Captains jobs. For the first time we have meaningful growth. The last two bids added net Captains jobs and the next bid will really have a substantial addition. That will be followed by similar bids for the next several years all based on growth in mainline block hours. At that point retirements kick in with a bang. Not one other US airline has a future looking as bright.
Again everyone is entitled to their opinion. My opinion is that we weathered one of the worst periods in US history for airlines far better then anyone else and are now poised for the growth we all are desperate to see. If the economy turns around the resulting movement could be far better then the eighties boom times.
in 2005 I was planning my new career after Delta shut down. I tend to be a optimist but I could not imagine Delta would be where it is today back then and that was without knowing that the future held a massive economic crash. Again for me its all about results.
12-12-2012, 04:19 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
12-12-2012, 04:22 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Alfa,
I think you can advocate with passion AND respect for you audience. You can be polite without being meek.
But I do agree that there is a double-standard here, and it has to do with something I defend, namely the anonymous nature of APC. I sometimes feel we're not getting the subtitles here, and some of the posters attacking you are union members present or past, on a vendetta. Passions run hotter in domestic disputes. Unfortunately, all participants have an equal right to anonymity, so it's hard to distinguish a crime of passion to an accidental drive-by shooting. Since you've insisted you're a line guy, and everyone else seems to be just a line guy, it's kind of hard to argue that people are just getting a pass on taking pot-shots at the union guys...
Since the rule on anonymity is not expected to change soon, and since most lurkers are eventually able to tell gratuitous personal attacks from legitimate discussions, the only way out is to reach and keep the moral high ground. Make the convincing argument, and you prevail. Get personal, and you lose.
I think you can advocate with passion AND respect for you audience. You can be polite without being meek.
But I do agree that there is a double-standard here, and it has to do with something I defend, namely the anonymous nature of APC. I sometimes feel we're not getting the subtitles here, and some of the posters attacking you are union members present or past, on a vendetta. Passions run hotter in domestic disputes. Unfortunately, all participants have an equal right to anonymity, so it's hard to distinguish a crime of passion to an accidental drive-by shooting. Since you've insisted you're a line guy, and everyone else seems to be just a line guy, it's kind of hard to argue that people are just getting a pass on taking pot-shots at the union guys...
Since the rule on anonymity is not expected to change soon, and since most lurkers are eventually able to tell gratuitous personal attacks from legitimate discussions, the only way out is to reach and keep the moral high ground. Make the convincing argument, and you prevail. Get personal, and you lose.
12-12-2012, 04:23 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,014
We have not lost flying percentage wise to AF/KLM. The pull down has been equal on both sides. .... I thought we had made a greater pull down but that is not the case. In fact in terms of block hours our percentage is up from around 53 percent of the transatlantic JV hours to 55 percent today. The agreement is based of course on a metric more complicated then straight block hours however block hours equates directly with jobs.
We have some really qualified people working on this and monitoring the situation. If pilots have concerns they are more then willing to talk with you and explain things in terms that the layman can understand. All it takes is a few phone calls. The union is well aware the company may fall out of compliance and has plans in place to work on equitable solutions. They can't however take any action until they are actually in violation of the agreement.
We have some really qualified people working on this and monitoring the situation. If pilots have concerns they are more then willing to talk with you and explain things in terms that the layman can understand. All it takes is a few phone calls. The union is well aware the company may fall out of compliance and has plans in place to work on equitable solutions. They can't however take any action until they are actually in violation of the agreement.
Your first instincts were correct. We have overall, pulled down flying relative to AF/KLM. There are some months we have dipped below 45%, which is a new low, along a trend line of lower lows and lower highs. To recover we'd need to be above 56% for some period of time to make up the deficit.
Further, you should be concerned if very specific data starts getting broken out from within the JV basket. Specifically watch for a break out of UK flying. Great Britain has been a very stable source of block hours for us and we have cut out around it. The case could be made that our UK flying has increased, relatively speaking, so there is no deficit. If such an argument were made, it would be using a very selective view to obsfucate the larger picture.
I am in complete agreement with your second paragraph.
I know you think I'm critical of Delta. The opposite is true. I want our Company to grow and do well. It gives me heartburn to hear our CEO and President talk about how great the Virgin brand is, in comparison to our own. I can't imagine CE Woolman cheering so vigorously for a loud mouth competitor who stated that Delta is among the "inefficient and very weak airlines in the world that don't deserve to survive."
If ever you have the choice of firing me, or Branson, please fire Branson.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 12-12-2012 at 04:43 PM.
12-12-2012, 05:02 PM
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,945
Lets Keep an Open Mind
Why do guys on here get upset with Sailing, Alfa etc? They are very knowledgeable and contribute greatly to the discourse.
I may not always agree with them but so what? It would be very boring and not informative at all if it were just 200 guys agreeing with each other, slamming the company and DALPA all the time. Yes FTB and 80 would liven things up now and then, but I prefer the good back and forth we get with polite disagreement and opinions backed up with facts.
Who cares if we disagree - no reason to ever get personal. Long live the thread!
OBTW - This post is not directly related to any of the immediately preceding posts - Its just that I have been having a technology challenged day and have been offline for a while.
Scoop
I may not always agree with them but so what? It would be very boring and not informative at all if it were just 200 guys agreeing with each other, slamming the company and DALPA all the time. Yes FTB and 80 would liven things up now and then, but I prefer the good back and forth we get with polite disagreement and opinions backed up with facts.
Who cares if we disagree - no reason to ever get personal. Long live the thread!
OBTW - This post is not directly related to any of the immediately preceding posts - Its just that I have been having a technology challenged day and have been offline for a while.
Scoop
12-12-2012, 05:17 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,414
The figures used in your first paragraph above are incorrect.
Your first instincts were correct. We have overall, pulled down flying relative to AF/KLM. There are some months we have dipped below 45%, which is a new low, along a trend line of lower lows and lower highs. To recover we'd need to be above 56% for some period of time to make up the deficit.
Further, you should be concerned if very specific data starts getting broken out from within the JV basket. Specifically watch for a break out of UK flying. Great Britain has been a very stable source of block hours for us and we have cut out around it. The case could be made that our UK flying has increased, relatively speaking, so there is no deficit. If such an argument were made, it would be using a very selective view to obsfucate the larger picture.
I am in complete agreement with your second paragraph.
I know you think I'm critical of Delta. The opposite is true. I want our Company to grow and do well. It gives me heartburn to hear our CEO and President talk about how great the Virgin brand is, in comparison to our own. I can't imagine CE Woolman cheering so vigorously for a loud mouth competitor who stated that Delta is among the "inefficient and very weak airlines in the world that don't deserve to survive."
If ever you have the choice of firing me, or Branson, please fire Branson.
Your first instincts were correct. We have overall, pulled down flying relative to AF/KLM. There are some months we have dipped below 45%, which is a new low, along a trend line of lower lows and lower highs. To recover we'd need to be above 56% for some period of time to make up the deficit.
Further, you should be concerned if very specific data starts getting broken out from within the JV basket. Specifically watch for a break out of UK flying. Great Britain has been a very stable source of block hours for us and we have cut out around it. The case could be made that our UK flying has increased, relatively speaking, so there is no deficit. If such an argument were made, it would be using a very selective view to obsfucate the larger picture.
I am in complete agreement with your second paragraph.
I know you think I'm critical of Delta. The opposite is true. I want our Company to grow and do well. It gives me heartburn to hear our CEO and President talk about how great the Virgin brand is, in comparison to our own. I can't imagine CE Woolman cheering so vigorously for a loud mouth competitor who stated that Delta is among the "inefficient and very weak airlines in the world that don't deserve to survive."
If ever you have the choice of firing me, or Branson, please fire Branson.
Your numbers are correct for EASK, my numbers are correct for block hours.
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