Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-14-2012, 03:41 AM
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I have had the company go both ways on this. It's always worth asking. I know not to long ago they were burned by a pilot who asked not to go since he was converted the next month and then turned around and bid a 12 day trip on the last day of the month.
11-14-2012, 03:44 AM
Runs with scissors
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I don't agree. Double pay for a GS is a "reward" to the pilot for volunteering to fill in when staffing is tight. Double pay for an IA is a "punishment" to the company for forcing a guy to fly on his days off when he didn't have any request in at all (gate agent meets pilot in jetway, etc).
You could have a provision to limit GS while guys are on the street. If you reduced IAs to straight pay at the same time, the company would be singing hosannahs. Now they would have carte blanche to really screw guys with zero financial penalty.
Bad idea.
(p.s. I've never flown a GS with guys on the street, and average one every four years).
You could have a provision to limit GS while guys are on the street. If you reduced IAs to straight pay at the same time, the company would be singing hosannahs. Now they would have carte blanche to really screw guys with zero financial penalty.
Bad idea.
(p.s. I've never flown a GS with guys on the street, and average one every four years).
The company sued 49 pilots (the entire 32 man MEC, plus 17 others) when the MEC put out a "Contract Awareness" bulliten about NOT flying overtime with guys on furlough and while we were in C2K negotiations.
Many of us said there should be a provision in the contract that shut off both GS and IA's when ever there were pilots on furlough....
Hey, didn't we just negotiate a new TA??
Funny that's -still- not in there...
You want to hear something funny? I was flying as 757 Capt. back then (2000), and I had a F/O who was on a GS and bragging about it. I asked him if he didn't feel just a little bit guilty about flying extra time while we had guys on the street.
His answer was, "Hey, I got furloughed in 1993, nobody gave a sh!t about me, so SCREW 'EM!, I've got to make that money back!"
That is why we NEED a "NO GS, or IA, with Pilots on Furlough" clause in the contract, to protect us from some of our own.
11-14-2012, 04:08 AM
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Posts: 278
Lots of airlines have either already started using the iPad in the cockpit or are in the process of doing so. They have already been approved by the FAA and both Boeing & Airbus have started creating apps for them because they understand the vital role the iPad will play for airlines. But Delta is going to go with Microsoft Surace. Brilliant.
It also came with Microsoft signing a deal with us for their corporate travel I was told.
11-14-2012, 04:12 AM
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GS's were supposed to be 'the answer' to assigning a junior pilot (Inverse Assignements) a trip he didn't want to fly. The senior guys said THEY should be ENTITLED to pick up that double pay, via GS's, vs. giving it to the most junior pilots as an IA.
The company sued 49 pilots (the entire 32 man MEC, plus 17 others) when the MEC put out a "Contract Awareness" bulliten about NOT flying overtime with guys on furlough and while we were in C2K negotiations.
Many of us said there should be a provision in the contract that shut off both GS and IA's when ever there were pilots on furlough....
Hey, didn't we just negotiate a new TA??
Funny that's -still- not in there...
You want to hear something funny? I was flying as 757 Capt. back then (2000), and I had a F/O who was on a GS and bragging about it. I asked him if he didn't feel just a little bit guilty about flying extra time while we had guys on the street.
His answer was, "Hey, I got furloughed in 1993, nobody gave a sh!t about me, so SCREW 'EM!, I've got to make that money back!"
That is why we NEED a "NO GS, or IA, with Pilots on Furlough" clause in the contract, to protect us from some of our own.
The company sued 49 pilots (the entire 32 man MEC, plus 17 others) when the MEC put out a "Contract Awareness" bulliten about NOT flying overtime with guys on furlough and while we were in C2K negotiations.
Many of us said there should be a provision in the contract that shut off both GS and IA's when ever there were pilots on furlough....
Hey, didn't we just negotiate a new TA??
Funny that's -still- not in there...
You want to hear something funny? I was flying as 757 Capt. back then (2000), and I had a F/O who was on a GS and bragging about it. I asked him if he didn't feel just a little bit guilty about flying extra time while we had guys on the street.
His answer was, "Hey, I got furloughed in 1993, nobody gave a sh!t about me, so SCREW 'EM!, I've got to make that money back!"
That is why we NEED a "NO GS, or IA, with Pilots on Furlough" clause in the contract, to protect us from some of our own.
11-14-2012, 04:27 AM
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11-14-2012, 04:39 AM
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Lots of airlines have either already started using the iPad in the cockpit or are in the process of doing so. They have already been approved by the FAA and both Boeing & Airbus have started creating apps for them because they understand the vital role the iPad will play for airlines. But Delta is going to go with Microsoft Surace. Brilliant.
If their buying, who cares though, I'll use it to the extent that it works.
If the tablets are slow and crash often, I can't see most of our pilots willing to deal with that.
11-14-2012, 04:56 AM
Runs with scissors
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Well, my memory is good, but it's short.
Must have been in 2001-02, when we DID have pilots on furlough...
The POINT is, there are many guys who would fly a GS, regardless of how many guys are on furlough. And then they will get pizzed when they are not moving up!
They don't seem to see the relationship.
Duh...
11-14-2012, 05:31 AM
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,423
GS's were supposed to be 'the answer' to assigning a junior pilot (Inverse Assignements) a trip he didn't want to fly. The senior guys said THEY should be ENTITLED to pick up that double pay, via GS's, vs. giving it to the most junior pilots as an IA.
The company sued 49 pilots (the entire 32 man MEC, plus 17 others) when the MEC put out a "Contract Awareness" bulliten about NOT flying overtime with guys on furlough and while we were in C2K negotiations.
Many of us said there should be a provision in the contract that shut off both GS and IA's when ever there were pilots on furlough....
Hey, didn't we just negotiate a new TA??
Funny that's -still- not in there...
You want to hear something funny? I was flying as 757 Capt. back then (2000), and I had a F/O who was on a GS and bragging about it. I asked him if he didn't feel just a little bit guilty about flying extra time while we had guys on the street.
His answer was, "Hey, I got furloughed in 1993, nobody gave a sh!t about me, so SCREW 'EM!, I've got to make that money back!"
That is why we NEED a "NO GS, or IA, with Pilots on Furlough" clause in the contract, to protect us from some of our own.
The company sued 49 pilots (the entire 32 man MEC, plus 17 others) when the MEC put out a "Contract Awareness" bulliten about NOT flying overtime with guys on furlough and while we were in C2K negotiations.
Many of us said there should be a provision in the contract that shut off both GS and IA's when ever there were pilots on furlough....
Hey, didn't we just negotiate a new TA??
Funny that's -still- not in there...
You want to hear something funny? I was flying as 757 Capt. back then (2000), and I had a F/O who was on a GS and bragging about it. I asked him if he didn't feel just a little bit guilty about flying extra time while we had guys on the street.
His answer was, "Hey, I got furloughed in 1993, nobody gave a sh!t about me, so SCREW 'EM!, I've got to make that money back!"
That is why we NEED a "NO GS, or IA, with Pilots on Furlough" clause in the contract, to protect us from some of our own.
If you were able to negotiate such a clause do you think it would have a long term positive or negative effect on the furloughed pilots verses the current system where GS's increase the manning formula? It certainly would force the company to make a choice. Accept large operations disruptions when IROPS occur or keep a lot of pilots on the payroll not working. If they choose option two it would prevent some furloughs. I think however they would go with option one and take the revenue hit rather then keep the extra bodies. Either option would be expensive for the company so negotiating such as clause would have a significant cost. In light of the current fleet plan and retirement outlook do you feel that would have been money well spent in the current contract or perhaps wasted?
Lee Moak came up with a all new concept to prevent furloughs. He championed the idea of laying in lots of very small penalties to the company in a furlough situation. Each individual item did not seem that significant but in total the penalty to the company becomes quite large if they choose to furlough. Lots of pilots posting on this forum would have been furloughed in 09 were in not for that concept. I think it worked well and is the way to go in the future.
On a side note I found the following to be true with most pilots. If they were in a category where they could not get GS's then the pilots who flew them were greedy bastards. If the situation in their category changed and they could now get GS's then the would fly them and then say, "Everyone else is flying them so why not me". In essence the the debate hinged on the availability of GS's to each pilot.
11-14-2012, 05:45 AM
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11-14-2012, 05:56 AM
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