Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-13-2012, 04:29 AM
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Delta MD-88 FO
Posts: 22
11-13-2012, 04:49 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Your post is one of the more ignorant I have seen on here. Reserve is first off not just a junior issue. Pilots with 3 digit seniority numbers sit reserve. Reserve is spread throughout the list. Reserve is also the most improved section of the contract in the last 25 years. No other section even comes close in terms of quality of life changes.
Dalpa has over the years done things never considered by other unions for junior pilots. They were the first to cover medical for furloughed pilots.
They were the first to get furloughed time counted for years of service for pay steps and retirement.
When the retirement plan was frozen the company wanted to replace it with a flat 9 percent DC plan to each pilot. Dalpa changed that to a targeted plan to provide substantially more money to the junior pilots and often 0 percent to the senior guys.
When the retirement plan was terminated they went to a flat DC plan rather then try and balance it back with another targeted plan.
The note money which was distributed to offset the retirement lost in the termination would have gone almost totally to the senior pilots if distributed on a straight percentage basis using the lost retirement of each pilot. DALPA felt that would send to much to the top 50 percent of the pilots so they changed every pilots FAE to 205,000 per year in the calculations to move money more down the list. That still left most going to the top half so they added a years of service minimum distribution.
They modified greenslips to include seniority only in the first one awarded a change from all awards to 2 awards and now 1.
The pay structure has been changed and new hire pilots have received far greater overall raises then any other portion of the list. No more 1500/ 1800 dollars a month flat rate pay ect..
Since the 1113 contract some of the single most expensive improvements such as elimination of recovery flying for training trip drops and increases in furlough protection were negotiated for the junior pilots.
I could go on and on but am tired of typing.
Dalpa has over the years done things never considered by other unions for junior pilots. They were the first to cover medical for furloughed pilots.
They were the first to get furloughed time counted for years of service for pay steps and retirement.
When the retirement plan was frozen the company wanted to replace it with a flat 9 percent DC plan to each pilot. Dalpa changed that to a targeted plan to provide substantially more money to the junior pilots and often 0 percent to the senior guys.
When the retirement plan was terminated they went to a flat DC plan rather then try and balance it back with another targeted plan.
The note money which was distributed to offset the retirement lost in the termination would have gone almost totally to the senior pilots if distributed on a straight percentage basis using the lost retirement of each pilot. DALPA felt that would send to much to the top 50 percent of the pilots so they changed every pilots FAE to 205,000 per year in the calculations to move money more down the list. That still left most going to the top half so they added a years of service minimum distribution.
They modified greenslips to include seniority only in the first one awarded a change from all awards to 2 awards and now 1.
The pay structure has been changed and new hire pilots have received far greater overall raises then any other portion of the list. No more 1500/ 1800 dollars a month flat rate pay ect..
Since the 1113 contract some of the single most expensive improvements such as elimination of recovery flying for training trip drops and increases in furlough protection were negotiated for the junior pilots.
I could go on and on but am tired of typing.
So how 'bout them there bid awards.
11-13-2012, 04:57 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,014
IamTubleweed,
I agree with Sailingfun on this one ... and to continue his point ... Our Reps were assailed in the ATL Pilot Lounge by senior pilots asking, "how much money did the reserve improvements cost us?" ... "why didn't we take that 1% in pay?" ... "they are junior and not the majority ... why?"
Our Reps logically stated that Delta's reserve pay was below industry standard and asked, "shouldn't we be industry standard?" ... Capt Bagadoughnuts responds "I don't care about reserve..." He, and his buddies, thought ALV for reserves and 72 hours a month was ripping them off.
Contract 2012 had a lot in it for the junior guys ... incremental recovery of our flying, more mainline aircraft, and much better reserve pay for starters. A case could be made that it did more for the junior guys than the senior guys. Our reserve pay was below industry average, so it had the farthest to go.
I agree with Sailingfun on this one ... and to continue his point ... Our Reps were assailed in the ATL Pilot Lounge by senior pilots asking, "how much money did the reserve improvements cost us?" ... "why didn't we take that 1% in pay?" ... "they are junior and not the majority ... why?"
Our Reps logically stated that Delta's reserve pay was below industry standard and asked, "shouldn't we be industry standard?" ... Capt Bagadoughnuts responds "I don't care about reserve..." He, and his buddies, thought ALV for reserves and 72 hours a month was ripping them off.
Contract 2012 had a lot in it for the junior guys ... incremental recovery of our flying, more mainline aircraft, and much better reserve pay for starters. A case could be made that it did more for the junior guys than the senior guys. Our reserve pay was below industry average, so it had the farthest to go.
11-13-2012, 05:09 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,014
Stole this from the Sully thread, but it applies to the "Pilot Shortage" posts on this thread.
Sully is exactly right (and I paraphrase) ... "like any Democracy with a free market we will have enough pilots when pilots are paid enough ..."
Is the U.S. facing a pilot shortage? - CBS News Video
Sully will never have to buy a cup of coffee in my presence. He is on the very short list of people I'd like to meet in my life.
Sully is exactly right (and I paraphrase) ... "like any Democracy with a free market we will have enough pilots when pilots are paid enough ..."
Is the U.S. facing a pilot shortage? - CBS News Video
Sully will never have to buy a cup of coffee in my presence. He is on the very short list of people I'd like to meet in my life.
11-13-2012, 05:26 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,423
IamTubleweed,
I agree with Sailingfun on this one ... and to continue his point ... Our Reps were assailed in the ATL Pilot Lounge by senior pilots asking, "how much money did the reserve improvements cost us?" ... "why didn't we take that 1% in pay?" ... "they are junior and not the majority ... why?"
Our Reps logically stated that Delta's reserve pay was below industry standard and asked, "shouldn't we be industry standard?" ... Capt Bagadoughnuts responds "I don't care about reserve..." He, and his buddies, thought ALV for reserves and 72 hours a month was ripping them off.
Contract 2012 had a lot in it for the junior guys ... incremental recovery of our flying, more mainline aircraft, and much better reserve pay for starters. A case could be made that it did more for the junior guys than the senior guys. Our reserve pay was below industry average, so it had the farthest to go.
I agree with Sailingfun on this one ... and to continue his point ... Our Reps were assailed in the ATL Pilot Lounge by senior pilots asking, "how much money did the reserve improvements cost us?" ... "why didn't we take that 1% in pay?" ... "they are junior and not the majority ... why?"
Our Reps logically stated that Delta's reserve pay was below industry standard and asked, "shouldn't we be industry standard?" ... Capt Bagadoughnuts responds "I don't care about reserve..." He, and his buddies, thought ALV for reserves and 72 hours a month was ripping them off.
Contract 2012 had a lot in it for the junior guys ... incremental recovery of our flying, more mainline aircraft, and much better reserve pay for starters. A case could be made that it did more for the junior guys than the senior guys. Our reserve pay was below industry average, so it had the farthest to go.
11-13-2012, 05:56 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Stole this from the Sully thread, but it applies to the "Pilot Shortage" posts on this thread.
Sully is exactly right (and I paraphrase) ... "like any Democracy with a free market we will have enough pilots when pilots are paid enough ..."
Is the U.S. facing a pilot shortage? - CBS News Video
Sully will never have to buy a cup of coffee in my presence. He is on the very short list of people I'd like to meet in my life.
Sully is exactly right (and I paraphrase) ... "like any Democracy with a free market we will have enough pilots when pilots are paid enough ..."
Is the U.S. facing a pilot shortage? - CBS News Video
Sully will never have to buy a cup of coffee in my presence. He is on the very short list of people I'd like to meet in my life.
We need more people like Sully, and less people like Roger Cohen looking our for this industry.
11-13-2012, 06:01 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 799
I love how I've flown more than anyone in my category, and because of that I haven't sat a short call yet. So, I'm in Raw group 2.. the only one, but yet I get short call tomorrow. So, I'm first up to go even though everyone else has flown less and is in another bucket.
We've got to put short call assignments in with the raw groups. Unbelievable.
We've got to put short call assignments in with the raw groups. Unbelievable.
For example, if a senior reserve guy bids to work a weekend, that person will still work over the weekend. This issue in my opinion is that the company doesn't schedule enough pilots over the weekends. Holding weekends off is everything with the new reserve system. If the staffing on weekends was better I think that many junior reserve folks would have a better QOL.
Instead of complaining about the RAW system, I think we should be complaining about the staffing the company uses. We're aiming at the wrong target on this one.
11-13-2012, 06:02 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: No to large RJs
Posts: 369
Your post is one of the more ignorant I have seen on here. Reserve is first off not just a junior issue. Pilots with 3 digit seniority numbers sit reserve. Reserve is spread throughout the list. Reserve is also the most improved section of the contract in the last 25 years. No other section even comes close in terms of quality of life changes.
Dalpa has over the years done things never considered by other unions for junior pilots. They were the first to cover medical for furloughed pilots.
They were the first to get furloughed time counted for years of service for pay steps and retirement.
When the retirement plan was frozen the company wanted to replace it with a flat 9 percent DC plan to each pilot. Dalpa changed that to a targeted plan to provide substantially more money to the junior pilots and often 0 percent to the senior guys.
When the retirement plan was terminated they went to a flat DC plan rather then try and balance it back with another targeted plan.
The note money which was distributed to offset the retirement lost in the termination would have gone almost totally to the senior pilots if distributed on a straight percentage basis using the lost retirement of each pilot. DALPA felt that would send to much to the top 50 percent of the pilots so they changed every pilots FAE to 205,000 per year in the calculations to move money more down the list. That still left most going to the top half so they added a years of service minimum distribution.
They modified greenslips to include seniority only in the first one awarded a change from all awards to 2 awards and now 1.
The pay structure has been changed and new hire pilots have received far greater overall raises then any other portion of the list. No more 1500/ 1800 dollars a month flat rate pay ect..
Since the 1113 contract some of the single most expensive improvements such as elimination of recovery flying for training trip drops and increases in furlough protection were negotiated for the junior pilots.
I could go on and on but am tired of typing.
Dalpa has over the years done things never considered by other unions for junior pilots. They were the first to cover medical for furloughed pilots.
They were the first to get furloughed time counted for years of service for pay steps and retirement.
When the retirement plan was frozen the company wanted to replace it with a flat 9 percent DC plan to each pilot. Dalpa changed that to a targeted plan to provide substantially more money to the junior pilots and often 0 percent to the senior guys.
When the retirement plan was terminated they went to a flat DC plan rather then try and balance it back with another targeted plan.
The note money which was distributed to offset the retirement lost in the termination would have gone almost totally to the senior pilots if distributed on a straight percentage basis using the lost retirement of each pilot. DALPA felt that would send to much to the top 50 percent of the pilots so they changed every pilots FAE to 205,000 per year in the calculations to move money more down the list. That still left most going to the top half so they added a years of service minimum distribution.
They modified greenslips to include seniority only in the first one awarded a change from all awards to 2 awards and now 1.
The pay structure has been changed and new hire pilots have received far greater overall raises then any other portion of the list. No more 1500/ 1800 dollars a month flat rate pay ect..
Since the 1113 contract some of the single most expensive improvements such as elimination of recovery flying for training trip drops and increases in furlough protection were negotiated for the junior pilots.
I could go on and on but am tired of typing.
I think this is one area that Dalpa has done a great job, but I totally understand being frustrated as a junior guy. From healthcare for the furloughed, note money, new hire pay, reserve rules etc....There were some mistakes to be sure IMO....PRP with guys on the street was not cool and was a particular source of heartburn for me, but all in all I appreciate the inroads Dalpa have made over the years in this regard.
11-13-2012, 06:24 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,544
For example, if a senior reserve guy bids to work a weekend, that person will still work over the weekend. This issue in my opinion is that the company doesn't schedule enough pilots over the weekends. Holding weekends off is everything with the new reserve system. If the staffing on weekends was better I think that many junior reserve folks would have a better QOL.
11-13-2012, 06:34 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 799
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