Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-12-2012, 02:10 PM
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Johnso,
Your post count is 9,777.
Is that also your bidding preference?
Your post count is 9,777.
Is that also your bidding preference?
11-12-2012, 02:44 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
I would think that precedent has been established by Comair Aviation Academy / Delta Connection Academy. For more than a decade, the Delta name and logo (as well as Delta pilots) endorsed that program.
Delta could set up any deal they want with a school and/or student, and unless the DALPA contract states that an ALPA pilot shall have final say in any hiring decision, "poof!" instant Delta new-hire pilot.
Or am I missing something?
Delta could set up any deal they want with a school and/or student, and unless the DALPA contract states that an ALPA pilot shall have final say in any hiring decision, "poof!" instant Delta new-hire pilot.
Or am I missing something?
I'm not suggesting ALPA endorses condidates, but I'm asking whether a person that was training under an ab-initio relationship would be a new-hire, just as for ANA. If such person is covered, and I supect labor law and our contract would make sure they're covered, then we have leverage.
11-12-2012, 02:47 PM
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For those using Chrome and want to get rid of the personalized ads, you can now click the Do not Track option.
Settings, Show Advanced Settings, Privacy, click on the box next to Do Not Track.
It might work and might not.
To get rid of ads all together, search for an extension called AdBlock
For those of you on the iPad, SOL as far as I know.
Settings, Show Advanced Settings, Privacy, click on the box next to Do Not Track.
It might work and might not.
To get rid of ads all together, search for an extension called AdBlock
For those of you on the iPad, SOL as far as I know.
11-12-2012, 02:48 PM
Can't abide NAI
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two separate issues:
First:
ANA Lufthansa train their own non-pilot newhires because of lack of a qualified rated pilot applicant pool in their home countries and because they view ab-initio pilot training as an integral part of their respective flight standards/training department.
Should Delta experience a qualified rated pilot shortage here in the US it would be a corporate decision to make ab-initio training an integral part of the flight standards/training department. Our contract makes no provisions for requiring training by Delta so it's highly unlikely Delta would ever bring ab-initio training directly under the purview of Delta Air Lines. Most likely it would be an offshoot of DGS if that....
Once that decision is made it would be up to DALPA to negotiate the work rules/conditions pay/benefits for the non-rated pilot newhires, or to require seniority list instructors for newhires. IMHO it's highly unlikely we would ever see either.
Second:
I agree.
A Delta pilot is a Delta pilot is a Delta pilot.
Seniority sorts out everything else.
Every Delta pilot should be afforded a hotel in training because it's the right thing to do.
Cheers
George
First:
ANA Lufthansa train their own non-pilot newhires because of lack of a qualified rated pilot applicant pool in their home countries and because they view ab-initio pilot training as an integral part of their respective flight standards/training department.
Should Delta experience a qualified rated pilot shortage here in the US it would be a corporate decision to make ab-initio training an integral part of the flight standards/training department. Our contract makes no provisions for requiring training by Delta so it's highly unlikely Delta would ever bring ab-initio training directly under the purview of Delta Air Lines. Most likely it would be an offshoot of DGS if that....
Once that decision is made it would be up to DALPA to negotiate the work rules/conditions pay/benefits for the non-rated pilot newhires, or to require seniority list instructors for newhires. IMHO it's highly unlikely we would ever see either.
Second:
I agree.
A Delta pilot is a Delta pilot is a Delta pilot.
Seniority sorts out everything else.
Every Delta pilot should be afforded a hotel in training because it's the right thing to do.
Cheers
George
I agree, but it will never happen.
We have roughly 5,000+ qualified pilots flying Delta passengers today. 350 of them were already represented by our MEC. Our MEC voted them out of our representative structure.
If we are unwilling to represent the Compass pilots, there aint no way Moak's regime is going to try to represent ab initio guys. ALPA did not list scope, or unity, as a priority in the strategic goals set by our BOD.
Disappointing ...
... anyway. Delta will never have a pilot shortage. We pay pretty well ... . US Air, Virgin, Spirit, Allegiant are going to have to pay more to get applicants.
11-12-2012, 02:51 PM
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Posts: 5,113
George,
I agree, but it will never happen.
We have roughly 5,000+ qualified pilots flying Delta passengers today. 350 of them were already represented by our MEC. Our MEC voted them out of our representative structure.
If we are unwilling to represent the Compass pilots, there aint no way Moak's regime is going to try to represent ab initio guys. ALPA did not list scope, or unity, as a priority in the strategic goals set by our BOD.
Disappointing ...
I agree, but it will never happen.
We have roughly 5,000+ qualified pilots flying Delta passengers today. 350 of them were already represented by our MEC. Our MEC voted them out of our representative structure.
If we are unwilling to represent the Compass pilots, there aint no way Moak's regime is going to try to represent ab initio guys. ALPA did not list scope, or unity, as a priority in the strategic goals set by our BOD.
Disappointing ...
11-12-2012, 02:58 PM
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Posts: 12,544
11-12-2012, 03:12 PM
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two separate issues:
First:
ANA Lufthansa train their own non-pilot newhires because of lack of a qualified rated pilot applicant pool in their home countries and because they view ab-initio pilot training as an integral part of their respective flight standards/training department.
First:
ANA Lufthansa train their own non-pilot newhires because of lack of a qualified rated pilot applicant pool in their home countries and because they view ab-initio pilot training as an integral part of their respective flight standards/training department.
Have a friend of the family who flew for the BundesLuftwaffe. A320 pilot flying their version of SAM aircraft. Got out and turned down by Lufthansa.
They want to train their new-hires from the ground up.
Not saying it's right or wrong.. but to say that there are no home grown pilots in Germany is not true.
Motch
11-12-2012, 03:17 PM
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Posts: 4,536
Right. The facility might already exist, but not the sort of arrangement I was thinking about. There wasn't a relationship where a) Delta paid tuition, and b) the student was committed to Delta.
I'm not suggesting ALPA endorses condidates, but I'm asking whether a person that was training under an ab-initio relationship would be a new-hire, just as for ANA. If such person is covered, and I supect labor law and our contract would make sure they're covered, then we have leverage.
I'm not suggesting ALPA endorses condidates, but I'm asking whether a person that was training under an ab-initio relationship would be a new-hire, just as for ANA. If such person is covered, and I supect labor law and our contract would make sure they're covered, then we have leverage.
Take myself for example - I was hired and paid by Delta as an academy instructor and as a Comair pilot. I've worn the widget for 12 years, but I'm still not on the Delta seniority list. I have no doubt that Delta could have paid for my training and gotten me to commit to whatever, only through a shell company that would keep me off the seniority list.
And then there's the underboob...
11-12-2012, 03:18 PM
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Posts: 12,544
All this shortage nonsense is just A4A carrying the water of the RAA to keep the ultra cheap feed coming. 1500 hours for regional FO's is a very low number historically and even less dramatic in the face of a shrinking regional structure over all. And there are so many flight schools out there that can and will ramp up when necessary it won't be a problem in the slightest. In fact it will actually help the long term pilot supply by incentivising instructors to stick with it for a year or so. 300 hours and out means no instructors and that just won't work beyond a couple quarters of big time hiring (I know, I know, by then someone will have gotten an A on their B school midterm and/or gotten a middle management level bonus for reducing costs or something and won't care anymore). When things get busy, any CFI can get 1000 hours a year or more, easy. As for cost, use regular airplanes. Not every hour has to be in a G1000 and besides its harder to transition to vastly inferior technology at the airlines anyway.
11-12-2012, 03:20 PM
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