Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-12-2012, 12:31 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
I'm not really surprised by these AE's, I'm just not commiting to the notion that we're going to see great progression next year. I just want to see the progression before I call it great. Is that unrealistic?
11-12-2012, 12:31 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
One thing that this illustrates once again that I don't quite understand (and I wonder every time I pass through) is why isn't MCO a pilot domicile?
I found the data overall very interesting.
11-12-2012, 12:36 PM
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Position: A big one that looks like a little one
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About this shortage of inexpensive pilots...
I saw an interesting post elsewhere that made me think about the "shortage", and the leverage it would produce for us. I've been thinking that, with the supply of pilots going down, our value would go up. After all, considering what we make now, who is going to want to risk the intial investment, and the uncertain outcome, of starting an airline pilot career?
Which answers my own question. You don't have to make the career worth the investment, you just need to remove the investment hurdle. What if, in lieu of a signing bonus, airlines provided free training in a 2-year program for hand-picked applicants? College requirement: waived. College debt: zero. Time to graduate: cut in half.
Negotiate something with the FAA to further loosen the 750-hour requirement under the excuse of needing to match the JAA Multi-Crew Pilot license, invest a few million in lobbying, say... 500 hours (more than the Europeans). Put in proper training notes so that people have a lengthy commitment, and you have a program.
Think that wouldn't attract some pretty bright people?
Depressing, I know, but it seems to me you could get pilots cheaper by investing heavily in the new pilots, not the old pilots. I wonder if the contract allows the company to have future pilots on the book that aren't pilots yet?
I saw an interesting post elsewhere that made me think about the "shortage", and the leverage it would produce for us. I've been thinking that, with the supply of pilots going down, our value would go up. After all, considering what we make now, who is going to want to risk the intial investment, and the uncertain outcome, of starting an airline pilot career?
Which answers my own question. You don't have to make the career worth the investment, you just need to remove the investment hurdle. What if, in lieu of a signing bonus, airlines provided free training in a 2-year program for hand-picked applicants? College requirement: waived. College debt: zero. Time to graduate: cut in half.
Negotiate something with the FAA to further loosen the 750-hour requirement under the excuse of needing to match the JAA Multi-Crew Pilot license, invest a few million in lobbying, say... 500 hours (more than the Europeans). Put in proper training notes so that people have a lengthy commitment, and you have a program.
Think that wouldn't attract some pretty bright people?
Depressing, I know, but it seems to me you could get pilots cheaper by investing heavily in the new pilots, not the old pilots. I wonder if the contract allows the company to have future pilots on the book that aren't pilots yet?
The right answer is to drive wages and additionally the prestige of the profession to a level that attracts highly qualified and highly paid applicants. We were there in 98 when I jumped at this mess but now...nope.
11-12-2012, 12:47 PM
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Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Exactly; and they're not alone. It just dawned on me today that in order to make it attractive for people to work for Delta, you can invest in everyone, and make Delta attractive, or I suppose you can simply invest in a select few.
11-12-2012, 12:56 PM
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: blueJet
Posts: 4,525
For example, using the numbers from a TOTALLY DIFFERENT insurance offer from ALPA, I figured I would need to be injured and off work at least six months out of every three years to break even.
If I missed more work than that, it would pay off. Needless to say, I wasn't Negateer enough to spring for the coverage.
Your situation may be different, but that is one way to figure out if that coverage is "worth it" to you.
11-12-2012, 12:56 PM
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Posts: 5,113
Multi crew is the wrong answer. Add this to the list of things to vehemently hate. The MCL theory is a sure fire way to recruit career FOs with the promise of $100k a year jobs. Think of how many sharp video game players would show up for that. They may be bright, but these people need to fly. I've seen the decision making produced by ab initio pilots in both seats. This may be convenient sounding but it's an absolute death sentence. Take notice of India's safety record.
The right answer is to drive wages and additionally the prestige of the profession to a level that attracts highly qualified and highly paid applicants. We were there in 98 when I jumped at this mess but now...nope.
The right answer is to drive wages and additionally the prestige of the profession to a level that attracts highly qualified and highly paid applicants. We were there in 98 when I jumped at this mess but now...nope.
I'm not promoting a method here. I was simply speculating on what approaches airlines might take to replace retiring pilots, and it seems to me that some of our assumptions about Delta wanting to pay us more to get someone else to come over, are a little simplistic.
11-12-2012, 12:57 PM
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Position: Starboard Side, weekends & holidays.
Posts: 855
2.5 months for me (Dec. 2010-Feb 2011). Completely reaffirmed my suspicions that I am, in fact, lazy and would be quite happy never working another day in my life.
11-12-2012, 01:00 PM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
I agree 100%, and I am NOT a fan of the MCL, for the reasons you stated. We would be the poor [deleted] that have to work with these skyGods, that know everything, and yet can't seem to fly an airplane, and our lives would be hell. I've had to do something similar in a previous life, where I worked with both ab-initio and off-the-street people. For the most part, experience won. At the regional level, there are cases where the more experienced piltos just had more bad habits, but not at the global carriers.
I'm not promoting a method here. I was simply speculating on what approaches airlines might take to replace retiring pilots, and it seems to me that some of our assumptions about Delta wanting to pay us more to get someone else to come over, are a little simplistic.
I'm not promoting a method here. I was simply speculating on what approaches airlines might take to replace retiring pilots, and it seems to me that some of our assumptions about Delta wanting to pay us more to get someone else to come over, are a little simplistic.
11-12-2012, 01:07 PM
seeing the large hubs...
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 73N A
Posts: 3,722
And since I imagine hotels rooms aren't that expensive, the two combine to make it not a base. The same question was asked about BOS at a pilot meeting (in JFK) and the answer was "we look at it every so often but hotel rooms are cheap in BOS".
11-12-2012, 01:08 PM
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
Similar to Lufhansa, ANA does the same with their newhires.
Hire with no flight experience, they come to the US for 18 months to be trained, then go back to Japan to fly 767s. They do quite well.
EVA air (Taiwan) trainees come here for 9 months.
BTW, for their newhire pilot trainees, the ANA pilot union negotiated a 3-day work week while in training and continuous per-diem.
Those guys are in Vegas every weekend...
Cheers
George
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