Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-02-2009, 05:01 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,574
A couple of us have mentioned specific instances where your solution "we check the flaps twice before takeoff anyway" has failed.
We did not check the flaps twice when the situation you pointed out occurred. The changes were made as a result of 1141. The flaps were checked once as a single challange item. They are now checked twice as a dual response item or 4 times instead of once. Additional changes were made in how the config warning system was tested to insure they were operational on a daily basis.
I don't see the CA ordering the flaps down as a extra safety net. If he forgets to make that statement will the FO forget to lower them? If they combine a Delta Captain with a former NWA FO its very likely at some point in the rotation the CA will forget to call for the flaps until it becomes ingrained. The waveoff is the signal to drop the flaps. As a CA I check to insure it gets done. We then check them twice more as a dual challange and response item on the check list.
One other point. The company has gone with a adapt and go to get to SOC. That means they have attempted to not blend procedures but adapt the method one or the other airline used. After SOC they intend when they have more time to look at how procedures could be blended to arrive at better solutions.
We did not check the flaps twice when the situation you pointed out occurred. The changes were made as a result of 1141. The flaps were checked once as a single challange item. They are now checked twice as a dual response item or 4 times instead of once. Additional changes were made in how the config warning system was tested to insure they were operational on a daily basis.
I don't see the CA ordering the flaps down as a extra safety net. If he forgets to make that statement will the FO forget to lower them? If they combine a Delta Captain with a former NWA FO its very likely at some point in the rotation the CA will forget to call for the flaps until it becomes ingrained. The waveoff is the signal to drop the flaps. As a CA I check to insure it gets done. We then check them twice more as a dual challange and response item on the check list.
One other point. The company has gone with a adapt and go to get to SOC. That means they have attempted to not blend procedures but adapt the method one or the other airline used. After SOC they intend when they have more time to look at how procedures could be blended to arrive at better solutions.
08-02-2009, 05:06 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
With the staffing as it is, I find it a little hard to believe anyone is going to be displaced in August (yeah, I know it is coming). In my category this weekend reserves required was 2,000% more than available. Reserves last month flew 80 hours, or more. I was over 87. Crew scheduling is calling a 24:00 and a half second lay over a "day off" and keeping guys going.
Shouldn't more green slips than reserve pilots almost every day be an indicator that, at least for now, we are not even adequately staffed?
I'm hoping all this work is an indicator that the displacements may not be as bad as we expect.
Shouldn't more green slips than reserve pilots almost every day be an indicator that, at least for now, we are not even adequately staffed?
I'm hoping all this work is an indicator that the displacements may not be as bad as we expect.
08-02-2009, 05:09 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
08-02-2009, 05:11 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
I don't see the CA ordering the flaps down as a extra safety net. If he forgets to make that statement will the FO forget to lower them? If they combine a Delta Captain with a former NWA FO its very likely at some point in the rotation the CA will forget to call for the flaps until it becomes ingrained. The waveoff is the signal to drop the flaps.
08-02-2009, 05:20 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,899
This is EXACTLY the kind of thing that SOPA/SMAC was designed to prevent. 6250 guys going out and saying "yea, I do it standard, BUT I really like the following....". This is where the serious trip ups happen (AKA "ahh, don't worry, just put the flaps when you like").
When I fly a trip, I KNOW what my job is, and I also know what my partner's job is. It's like a carefully choriographed dance, where I know my steps, and my partner's steps...when and how they are supposed to happen. If he/she misses one, I know RIGHT AWAY.
I can say that of my 11 years at NWA, all of which has been with SOPA/SMAC, I have yet to fly with ONE SINGLE person that was off the reservation so much as 1%. These consistent expectations provide a critical error trap. I'm not trying to remember "how this guy does it".
It's not micromanaging...everyone already knows their jobs.
But, really, it's ok. With FOQA and ASAP in place, the trends will bubble up to the top eventually.
Nu
08-02-2009, 05:47 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
[quote=acl65pilot;655151]Better yet call for every thing you want. You are the CA and can amend anything you choose. That is Captain Authority.
Like I say, do everything the FOM, Airway Manual and Vol1 states, at a min. You can always add whatever you want.
It is kind of like saying "1000 feet, cleared to land, missed approach altitude set." It used to be that way, but now the missed approach altitude statement is not made on the 767. Most add it and I am one of them.
It shouldn't be a mystery what to expect from the other guy, the FO should not have to put on chameleon clothes for every trip. Even when some one adds or deletes a call out, it throws you off ever so slightly. I've changed for the other 5, I will do it again...but there are a lot ways to skin the cat...we need to look at what is safest and most efficent. Not implying anything.
Like I say, do everything the FOM, Airway Manual and Vol1 states, at a min. You can always add whatever you want.
It is kind of like saying "1000 feet, cleared to land, missed approach altitude set." It used to be that way, but now the missed approach altitude statement is not made on the 767. Most add it and I am one of them.
It shouldn't be a mystery what to expect from the other guy, the FO should not have to put on chameleon clothes for every trip. Even when some one adds or deletes a call out, it throws you off ever so slightly. I've changed for the other 5, I will do it again...but there are a lot ways to skin the cat...we need to look at what is safest and most efficent. Not implying anything.
08-02-2009, 05:48 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
Tell me about tolerance and how it works on AWABS. Also on the FSR, if you have an inop guage...will the only info you get is actual stick reading and desired stick reading...or is there a conversion to gallons or pounds? thx
08-02-2009, 05:53 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
No one does. I get exactly what I expect from every Captain. I can just tell if the CA has come of the 88 or the 73N. Old habits die hard. The missed approach alt is from the 88. They like to hear it in the sims, but it is not a required call out. When guys state it, I can tell they came from the 88.
Some rigidity is good. I came from a place where there was a black and white answer to every movement. I came here and it took some time to get used to it. Fact is that I like the big bubble philosophy. 99.99% of our pilots do it the same way every time. Probably because there is so much latitude to just get it done.
If it does not work well for you, write it up. Stomp your feet and complain as loud as you can. They may listen and change it post SOC.
Doing both methodologies, I have to say I like DAL's better. It just too a few months to get used to.
In effect it allowed the FO the ability to actually get an aircraft ready for a late CA. Many times that save the flight from taking the delay. The CA gets on and asks what you did. Tell him and go from there.
Some rigidity is good. I came from a place where there was a black and white answer to every movement. I came here and it took some time to get used to it. Fact is that I like the big bubble philosophy. 99.99% of our pilots do it the same way every time. Probably because there is so much latitude to just get it done.
If it does not work well for you, write it up. Stomp your feet and complain as loud as you can. They may listen and change it post SOC.
Doing both methodologies, I have to say I like DAL's better. It just too a few months to get used to.
In effect it allowed the FO the ability to actually get an aircraft ready for a late CA. Many times that save the flight from taking the delay. The CA gets on and asks what you did. Tell him and go from there.
08-02-2009, 06:14 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: 320B
Posts: 781
Well, at least we are debating the pro's and con's of "how we do it over here" vs mudslinging and infighting on worthless topics like SLI, so this merger must be working well.
I personally will fly the jets how Delta tells me to fly the jets and make the required adjustments. Bottom line is that we have complete opposite ends of the spectrum regarding philosophy of operations (exacting details of what to do/expect vs here is the required outcome with a few requirements and you get there as you deem professionally necessary).
It will all work out in the end, I just hope that all of us North pilots take our time and verify that the jet is really ready to go and don't let yourself get rushed. This last change has some big changes for us and we just need to work though them.
I personally will fly the jets how Delta tells me to fly the jets and make the required adjustments. Bottom line is that we have complete opposite ends of the spectrum regarding philosophy of operations (exacting details of what to do/expect vs here is the required outcome with a few requirements and you get there as you deem professionally necessary).
It will all work out in the end, I just hope that all of us North pilots take our time and verify that the jet is really ready to go and don't let yourself get rushed. This last change has some big changes for us and we just need to work though them.
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